Schatten HFN - Page 2

Marshall · #16 11-14-2013, 10:35 AM

You're supposed to roll up 3 pea sized little balls of putty and stick one each on the 3 feet. A gentle push will hold it in place. When you see (mirror) that it's in the right place, a hard squeeze mushes the stuff in place. I've gotten nothing anywhere else but where the unit is. True some stuff gets forced out around the edges. But it just sits there and hardens.

I haven't tried to remove one. I suppose you'd have to use some sandpaper to get all the gummy stuff off. But you're gonna do that with anything. Probably the sticky tape too. And DEFINITELY superglue, if you've done a K&K type install.

As a further note, once I took one of my old PUTW guitars and put a drop of superglue between the sticky tape and the bridge plate near the wire end and pressed that in place. The pickup worked nice and didn't have any problems. I've since sold that guitar. But it sounded great after I'd done that. I kept it a year before selling it. And I tested it (plugged it in) just before I sold it.

But I'm adverse to using superglue as a general rule. I really don't want to stick something in that I can't take out some time in the future.
(No snide jokes please

)

Petty1818 · #17 11-14-2013, 02:41 PM

Doug, you are not the only one who has had issues with the putty that Schatten supplies with their pickups! I have yet to try the HFN (will be soon) but I have used their Bouzouki and Mandolin pickups that stick to the bridge and the putty is extremely sticky and can be a pain to work with. However, I will say that it's the best putty that I have ever used. Once you push the pickup in place, it's staying there. The downside is that if you remove the pickup the putty tends to stick fairly well so it might take a bit to get it all off. It's good to know that the tape method is a good alternative.

lmacmil · #18 11-15-2013, 08:27 AM

I had the HFN active in 2 different guitars. I loved the sound and loved not having to use an external preamp as I do with the K&K. My problem with it was feedback. I do the same open mic about every 3 weeks and had feedback issues with both guitars (have not had feedback issues with K&K or UST-equipped guitars.) Because I had the volume/tone control module, I couldn't use a soundhole feedback buster. I finally removed it (which was very easy) and sold it.

I think a situation where one had time to tweak the EQ to eliminate feedback, the HFN would be fine. But it didn't work for me at an open mic.

Petty1818 · #19 11-15-2013, 03:08 PM

That's interesting.. I was wondering if feedback might be an issue. I am going to try the passive option and use a feedback buster and see what I can do with it live.

Marshall · #20 11-15-2013, 05:06 PM

I play open mics a lot with big sound systems and floor monitors at your feet. I only had one instance with any feedback. And the sound guy was able to dial back and eliminate it before I started playing.

Most of the time, the sound guy has to bring up the volume as the Schatten HFN with the Schatten belt clip preamp seems to have a lower volume output than most pickups.

As and aside, I used to use a PUTW endpin jack preamp. That worked fine, but the preamp broke an internal wire and couldn't be fixed. So I switched to the Schatten belt clip preamp. And I find the Schatten preamp has a better overall sound with the pickup (as you might expect). Though the volume is lower than with the PUTW preamp. But the PUTW preamp gave a harsher pickup sound with the HFN.

Marshall · #21 11-15-2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmacmil

. . . , Because I had the volume/tone control module, I couldn't use a soundhole feedback buster. . . . ,

A feedback buster is just a rubber soundhole insert, right? I have one of those that I cut a little chunk out where the soundhole vol wheel was on one of my previous pickups that had an internal vol control. it's sitting in a box somewhere.

But I haven't used it in a few years since I first switched to the M1 pickup and now the Schatten. (I think the feedback buster was for my old PUTW #27s that had the internal preamp and volume wheel.)

But my point is, you can cut the rubber around the control.

philjs · #22 11-15-2013, 07:42 PM

Interesting. I've never had a problem with feedback playing any of my instruments (all with HFN passives and no onboard controls...I've yet to use the Larrivee J-09 with the retrofitted HFN active onstage) playing anywhere from pubs to concert stages to quick "walk-out" guest spots on a variety of stages to festival main stages in front of 3000 people. Of course, I never plug-in without my Venue...and it has excellent feedback suppression. My Venue notch filter is generally set at about 10 o'clock (roughly 100 Hz).

Phil

SpruceTop · #23 11-15-2013, 07:57 PM

I ordered from Schatten Design a Schatten HFN Artist Plus 2 (with Artist II preamp and two thumbwheel volume controls) and installed it in my Martin D-18. The results were only mildly impressive and I returned the system to Schatten Design. I then ordered a Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono V-T (Volume-Tone controls) system from Trance Audio and installed that in my Martin D-18 with impressive results just using the system as is. The results were so good that that same day I ordered another Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono V-T system and installed it in my Larrivee D-04. The Trance system is highly feedback resistant with a warm and responsive tone.

I thought the Schatten HFN system was well-made and perhaps if I'd wanted to mess around with it more, I may have gotten a more satisfying amplified tone and YMMV. The Trance Audio Amulet M Dual system was a no-fuss, no-muss installation with satisfying results.

Regards,

SpruceTop

Petty1818 · #24 11-16-2013, 10:56 AM

Phil, that's good to hear that you have not had any major issues with feedback. I am going to order the passive version and try it out. I am hoping for some good results, just not sure if I want to use the tape or putty option.

methodinsane · #25 11-18-2013, 01:41 PM

Had anyone been able to compare these to the Dazzos?

Doug Young · #26 11-18-2013, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by methodinsane

Had anyone been able to compare these to the Dazzos?

There are both Dazzo and HFN samples on my pickup page.

BTW, I got motivated over the weekend to mess with this pickup a bit more. Although it sounded reasonable with the tape, there was a bit of high end edge that bothered me, fairly thin, so I decided to try gluing it in. I used Barge cement, which is the same thing Gryphon uses to install Trance pickups. As expected, the sound is a lot more bassy and full, and the treble edge is gone. BUT, I think it goes too far in that direction, rather boomy and muddy, and it's extremely sensitive to hitting the bridge with my palm - one of the things I liked about the HFN was that this aspect was less problematic than K&Ks. Apparently it's the looser coupling that does that, and as soon as I hard-bind to the bridge, it's the same thing. I'm actually still waiting for the glue to cure, I think it may take a few days to be fully settled in, and we'll see what the tone is like then. Right now, I'm thinking it was a bad idea. But it does really show how sensitive these things are to the way they are mounted. I imagine different types of tape will sound different. Teddy, with the Dazzo's has experimented a lot with different glues, and has told me that each glue sounds different.

Petty1818 · #27 11-18-2013, 04:35 PM

Doug, thanks for the update. This makes me think that maybe the putty is the best option for installing the HFN. I know with my Octave Mandolin pickup from Schatten which sticks to the bridge, the putty gave the most pleasing sound. I tried tape first but I found that the signal was too weak. I then tried a very thin layer of putty (less than Schatten recommends) and found that the signal was far too bassy. However, when I applied to recommended amount of putty the tone was very nice. It actually has a microphone type tone to it. This is probably the case with any SBT style pickup but the Schatten pickups seem to need a balance between the glue which allows the pickup to be closer to the bridge/soundboard and the tape which gives a weaker signal.

I am still going to try one out. It's definitely worth it for how easy it is to install and remove.

Doug Young · #28 11-18-2013, 11:56 PM

I gave this another try tonight after a good 2 days to let the glue dry, and it's much improved, but still erring on the side of being too bassy and sort of glassy trebles. Probably usable with some EQ, but not knocking me out. I suspect the pickup needs the putty to soften the tone a bit. Oh well, it was an interesting experiment.

SpruceTop · #29 11-19-2013, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I gave this another try tonight after a good 2 days to let the glue dry, and it's much improved, but still erring on the side of being too bassy and sort of glassy trebles. Probably usable with some EQ, but not knocking me out. I suspect the pickup needs the putty to soften the tone a bit. Oh well, it was an interesting experiment.

Doug,

How did the Trance Audio Amulet installation turn out for you in another guitar? Thanks for any information you wish to share.

Regards,

SpruceTop

Doug Young · #30 11-19-2013, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Doug,

How did the Trance Audio Amulet installation turn out for you in another guitar? Thanks for any information you wish to share.

Regards,

SpruceTop

It's actually the same guitar. I pulled the Trance out pretty quick, didn't work for me at all, with the tape install. Very thin. Could be the guitar, tho this guitar sounds fine with a K&K. I think I'll try the Trance glued in and see how that works.