Melody or rhythm?

[rmgjsps]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Rhythm rules. Always. The right note at the wrong time is still wrong.

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing"

[David Rock]

O.K.

Thanks for every ones replies on MY music and this ISSUE (now I understand; I have seen the light!).

I appreciated Jonpr (and everyone's) response regarding timing and tempo. So here is my take away on it ALL (for now):

Timing [might] be everything (Or maybe precision is the right word?)

The right note at the wrong time is..wrong

The wrong note at the right time is...color

Rhythm comes in many forms

Clave -- got it! -- is what I don't got! Read into this Wiki if you want: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clave_(rhythm) I ain't got none of that, but that is what attracted my attention listening to (whomever it was at the Greek place). I also got that Santana has been able to 'capture' it.

Rhythm WILL get you through periods of 'quiet melody time' (oh man, as a soloist, I hate that lack of background noise sometimes)

Great melody HAS rhythm (groove)

My music is NOT dance music, it is LISTENING music, and, uh, I need to work on my timing a bit

Thanks
D

[Guitar Slim II]

Originally Posted by David Rock

The right note at the wrong time is..wrong

The wrong note at the right time is...color

Ha, someone should use this as their sig. it’s hilarious, it’s true, and it’s JAZZ.

[EllaMom]

OK, fine! Now I hafta start paying more attention to counting when practicing. Thanks a lot! LOL

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by David Rock

The right note at the wrong time is..wrong

The wrong note at the right time is...color

As Guitar Slim II says, that's jazz! There's a few old jazz sayings that say much the same thing:
"No such thing as a wrong note, only a wrong time to play it."
"If you play a wrong note, play it again so people think you meant it."
"For any wrong, the right one is a half-step away."
"Do not fear mistakes; there are none." (Miles Davis)

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by David Rock

Clave -- got it! -- is what I don't got! Read into this Wiki if you want: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clave_(rhythm) I ain't got none of that, but that is what attracted my attention listening to (whomever it was at the Greek place). I also got that Santana has been able to 'capture' it.

The clave is at the basis of all kinds of rock rhythms as well as jazz. It's essentially a 2-bar rhythmic pattern combining on-beats on one bar with off-beats in the 2nd bar.
In Cuban music, it's the foundation of the tunes (often hidden beneath everything else) while in rock music the principle gets turned in riffs, often the basis of whole songs.
Here's some examples from rock history:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJj22Z006ec
- that one has the off-beat bar first, a variant of the Cuban 3-2. Aka "shave and a haircut - two bits."
The rock ones tend to go the other way, on-beat bar first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUwEIt9ez7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59K2kF6o9Tk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE

here's a rare "swing clave":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSAJ0l4OBHM

[KDepew]

Great question. and always one that gets good response.

I am in the rhythm rules camp. You gotta have rhythm for the melody to work.

My 2 cents.....

[s0cks]

From my understanding, it was Africa that brought groove to western music.

First I must say you're a much more established player than I, so I'm certainly not trying to put you down here, but I will admit that I don't feel any groove in your songs - trying to tap along was a task of frustration.

However, I guess that is fine if you aren't looking to make people dance. And as others said, as easy listening it is perfectly fine, and quite lovely might I add.

For me though, I find music with a strong groove to be a much more satisfying listening experience. And that doesn't mean it needs a "beat". It could be solo guitar, but you can still feel the underlying rhythmic groove. Without it I find it difficult to connect emotionally with the song. I have to agree with Dizzy Gillespie, when I started to think of music as rhythm with notes put to it, my playing really improved quite rapidly. But changing to that mindset, when I originally thought of notes first rhythm second, was a long, and still on-going process (breaking years of habit is hard, who'd of thought!).

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by David Rock

I was a little curious and always have been...I know this is a loaded question but do not mean it that way.

Preface with -- I was at Greek restaurant yesterday they were streaming some pretty cool music...it reminded me of Ottmar Liebert kind of stuff. So I looked up O.L. youtube. I pulled up Barcelona Nights and some other Rhumba examples. Now I am not a Rhumba or Flamenco kinda guy, but it was cool and interesting. (Sorry, but I cannot get my right hand that loose. I am sure it would just fall off!)

Which is more important 'groove' or melody?

I have always been chasing melody but maybe groove calls for more attention to the art? So much 'new age' is in my opinion focused on groove.

Groove or melody?

Here is an example of my chase for melody:



Thanks for the input
D

Groove! It's all about the feel.

To quote Beethoven "To play a wrong note is inconsequential. To play without feeling is inexcusable!"

[Mr. Jelly]

I've always looked at it per song. Some rely more one melody and others more on rhythm. And of coarse some are more balanced then others. As a guitarist that focuses on playing guitar without singing a song with a weak melody is boring.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by David Rock

Groove or melody?

D

Aum.............

[mr. beaumont]

Howard Roberts would do this thing in classes/clinics where he'd play the "wrong" notes over a tune, but play them with solid, interesting rhythm and with confidence. And it would sound good.

I need both in my music.

As for the OP, I couldn't help but smile that being in a Greek restaurant made you think of a German guy playing Spanish music

[rick-slo]

Suggesting that each note in a melody has a time duration and that in itself makes rhythm the answer to the OP question
begs and undermines the question. Also a "wrong" note may be over looked or in some way dealt with, but more important
is how good the right notes are.

[Mr. Jelly]

Jimi Hendrix's best talent was his rhythm. Think about it the next time you listen to some of his live stuff.

The single best thing you can do to make a band sound better is to get a better drummer.

[DukeX]

You can have rhythm without melody, but you cannot have melody without rhythm.