Finger planting

[ZippyChip]

I changed my technique because of classical guitar. I used to plant my pinkie but got away from it because I could see it needed to be done. Anyone else fixed a bad habit? Dumb question right! LOL

[ZippyChip]

First of all. The spell checker got me....so funny. The title should be finger planting. Senior citizen Got it fixed

[saxonblue]

Originally Posted by ZippyChip

First of all. The spell checker got me....so funny. The title should be finger planting. Senior citizen
How can I change the title?

That's OK, 1st glance I thought it said Dinner Plating .

[fingerguy]

I used to do a pinky plant but found I can do more and function faster without it planted. As far as getting the right strings and trying to use the correct fingers on the correct strings just took practice and being observant of my actions.

[rick-slo]

I wouldn't plant a finger on the guitar itself, however resting a finger on some string or other from time to time is a useful thing to do (damping, scales, etc.).

[fazool]

Who declared it a bad habit?

It's neither right nor wrong.

I had a mentor once tell me to never wrap your thumb around the neck.

People with strong opinions will freely condescend to "correct" you.

I plant my pinky always. By doing so I have better speed, accuracy, fluency and volume. I also pick with all my fingers so my planted pinky is a light touch reference point.

I say everyone should plant there finger - so there.

Originally Posted by fazool

Who declared it a bad habit?

It's neither right nor wrong.

I had a mentor once tell me to never wrap your thumb around the neck.

I plant and I wrap. I'm just a bad seed.

[Mr. Scott]

As I understand it, it is not usual to place the right hand little finger on the soundboard, but the thumb can be placed on the 6th or 5th string, especially when playing apoyando to help with increased volume and accuracy.

[fingerguy]

Originally Posted by A-Mac

I plant and I wrap. I'm just a bad seed.

Wrapping it helpful in many ways but I too try to keep the thumb behind the neck. Also the size of ones hands plays a factor on what you do for what. I do use it a lot for the C-chord so I keep the low E muted.

[kevets]

Originally Posted by fazool

Who declared it a bad habit?

Four generations of performing classical guitarists, none of whom plant. Aaron Shearer created a classical guitar department where he was very opinionated on correct posture and positioning.

I've seen probably more than 50 performing classical guitarists, and they are all pretty uniform in their posture. Paul Galbraith's upright cello posture is an exception, but even he doesn't plant.

[dosland]

I'll still fret the bass with my thumb on occasion, but I see the logic in the old-school objection to it, as it can pull the string sharp or produce a less than ideal sound to fret that imprecisely (unless theres something highly irregular going on with your thumb, it probably smooches the neck all the way to the contact point and then smashes the string down there, if that makes sense). Still, it's sometime the quickest way to get from one thing to the next, and there are situations where that might be more important than fretting with the exactly correct portion of one of the "good" digits. My main bad habit is resting too much of my right arm on the guitar's top sometimes, and that can't really ever be beneficial to the sound. I think.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

...but the thumb can be placed....

By "can" do you mean allowable and permitted? By whom, exactly?

Originally Posted by kevets

...he was very opinionated on correct posture and positioning.....

And opinion makes "right"

[kevets]

As for thumb wrapping, I find the width of the fretboard and the profile of the neck of a classical doesn't really invite this technique.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by fazool

By "can" do you mean allowable and permitted? By whom, exactly?



And opinion makes "right"

I'll bite.

The modern guitar is an off-shoot or development of earlier instruments, such as the lute and vihuela. Historically, they were never played with the thumb wrapped around the neck to fret the bass string. In both cases, the neck is too wide to do so as a common technique, much as it is on a modern classical guitar.

With a lute, in particular, the pinky was not planted on the lute top as, particularly with Baroque lutes, the strings spanned such a distance that it would not be possible to maintain the pinky on the top while plucking the bass strings.



So, to turn the question around, at what time in the history of the guitar did players begin wrapping a thumb around the neck to fret bass strings? Since classically trained classical guitar players never did, obviously, it was likely introduced as part of steel string guitar playing technique, with the narrower steel string necks. That is, narrower steel string necks allowed the technique to be viable. The obvious question, then, is who introduced the technique and for what reason. Obviously, it was introduced to facilitate playing certain music for which it was an advantage to wrap the thumb to fret bass notes. Likely, that was introduced by "pioneers" of the steel string guitar, quite likely old-time folk music or blues. In short, they did what made the music they were trying to play easier for them to play.

In the end, that's what technique is about - making the music easier to play or sound better. Anything that does that is, generally, a good thing, whether or not it is "right" or "accepted". And, of course, what works well for one player may not work well for another. In general, the more demanding and complex the music one is trying to play, the more technique is required. For example, nearly anyone can play three chords and strum them with a flatpick: technique needs to only be good enough to accomplish the task at hand - no pun intended. On the other hand - no pun intended - if the task is to play, say, Bach's Chaconne, one's gonna need some pretty well developed technique to make it all it can be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNEnzNHTkd8

In short, there is only what works for the task you have at hand. Not "right" and "wrong". Some things work better than others for the task at hand. Being aware of many options broadens the tool set one can apply to the task. "Be all you can be."

[ZippyChip]

I think thumb wrapping may have started with steel string guitars. I wrap to fret a bass note on only one song and it is on my steel string guitar. Sometimes you just run out of fingers, so why not. I don't see it as a benefit to classical guitar unless the player has large hands.

IMHO, planting the pinkie only makes sense if one is flat picking. Otherwise it causes the hand position to be too flat. When the hand position too flat the it is more difficult to keep the thumb nail from grazing adjacent strings and causing unnecessary noise.

Also, I am sure you have noticed that classical guitars do not have a pick guard right? There is a reason for that. Go ahead, put your pinkie on the top and while you are at it make sure to rest your forearm on as much top surface as possible. While you are at it make sure to pull the guitar in tight so your belly is firmly into the back. Record your guitar. Then try doing it with good technique eliminating all of the above. There will be a difference.

It is absolutely a bad technique unless you are flat picking. if you play a classical guitar and plant, and think it is not a bad habit then you are in denial. But if it works for you its ok. Those that know will notice however.

P.S.
This is about technique and not playing ability or talent.