Wenge the new Brazilian?

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by Eire

I have two of Tim McKnight's guitars, one wenge and one Brazilian, though the tops are somewhat different (cedar/Englemann double top and BC Englemann, respectively -- I believe Neil is talking about my McKnight wenge guitar in his earlier post, as I know he played it at a McJam). I'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference, were I playing them blindfolded. I also have a cocobolo guitar (LS redwood) Tim built, and I'm sure that I could tell that guitar apart from the other two. And while I know BRW can be aesthetically gorgeous, I find something beautiful in the tight, deep brown and black grain of the wenge; there's no bling, but it's a beautiful wood in its natural simplicity.

OT: Congratulations on a fine guitar. There have been many that left me smitten but that one stuck out about among 2 or 3.

[alohachris]

Aloha,

I first heard about Wenge as a guitar wood in the mid-70's. California luthier Don Musser wrote a GAL data sheet about how full the fundamental overtone structure is with that wood that captured my imagination.

So in the late 70's, I made two 00-12 fretter's with old, old German Spruce tops (from a relative in Buebenruth, SE Germany) & quartered Wenge B&S, leaving the depth at around 4-1/2". All the trim was done in curly Koa. The customers - both giggers - really liked them. Yes, it did take a while to bend that interlocking grain.

Today, I sell 4/4 & 8/4 Wenge lumber here in Honolulu for $18.50/BF. I'm sure you can find 8"+ wide boards to resaw for less on the Mainland.

One suggestion: cut some bindings from flat-sawn Wenge. Very distinctive, contrasting bindings visually with some maroons that come through. It's a bit like Hawaii's kolohala ("Pheasantwood"). I think you'll like the results.

It is So True about Wenge's septic splinters. Ya can't even sweep your hand over a back that's been sanded to 150 without a zing. And those splinters will infect you faster than most species.

Nothing can beat BRW's potential as a back & side wood. But essentially it is gone, gentleman. I wouldn't dare compare anything tonally to BRW, but, Wenge is a superior wood for guitar backs & sides & relatively cheap (especially if you cut your own).

I think that Madagascar RW is the closest sounding to BRW - another moot point because it's on the CITES list too.

Great call on resawing your own quartered Wenge, Bruce. That's definitely the ticket. But keep your callouses up before ya use it, guys.

We used to say out here that "the only thing worse than Wenge for splinters is Red Coconut Palm (a nasty local wood), & that's exactly what you get if you work it all day." Ha!

All the Best!

alohachris

[gitnoob]

Originally Posted by gitnoob

Got any pictures of your Jatoba guitars?

Google does.

[Huckleberry]

I've played three wene guitars: the Somogyi mentioned above, a Baranik Meridian and a very fancy Matsuda with a drop-D fingerboard extension. All were exceptional sounding guitars. Definitely in the spectrum of a very good rosewood.

I wouldn't want to compare it to Brazilian rosewood. I've played three BRW guitars, one was a Bown OM, the best Martin-style OM I've ever played. The other two (both handmade, single-luthier guitars from well respected builders) I didn't care for at all. So I remain open minded but yet to be convinced of the superiority of BRW.

My current favourite is macassar ebony, but my next commission will almost certainly be in wenge. I just wish it looked a bit more... dramatic!

Edit: BTW I've also played a few of Bruce Sexauer's guitars - my favourite was in jatoba, I can't remember what model it was.

[mikealpine]

I played a couple of BRW Larrivees and really didn't think they were anything special. I know they are not built by the craftsmen here, and perhaps I would change my mind, but that was my only opporrtunity to play BRW so it is my only impression. I've heard sound lips or Wenge and have enjoyed those. Like the prior poster, I am a fan of the ebonies, so perhaps tonally I have a different attraction. My upcoming build will be with Malaysian Blackwood. It actually was going to be Wenge, but I was fixated on MB and one of the AGF members, TonewoodSupply, said he had some nice sets available, so I checked with Joel Stehr (building mine). He took a look, approved of a few sets so we picked one. Based on the comaprison of Wenge to BRW, and my penchant for ebony, I think I'll be glad we made the switch. Love the look of Wenge, though...chocolatey and simple, making a beautiful contrast to something like a Carpathian top. I think Tom Doerr built something like that I thought it looked really beautiful.

[Trevor M]

Huckleberry,

The Sexauer was an FT16, a fantastic guitar.

I somehow managed to forget the Matsuda...

I also have a wenge guitar on order from Simon Fay.

[M Sarad]

The Brondel with Laurent providing the sound clips :

http://lblutherie.blogspot.com/2012/...wenge.html?m=1

[hobbesy123]

If you read the comments to the Somogyi article someone mentioned that Wenge has been used forever for basses. Did a Google image search for Wenge guitar and it was indeed mostly basses.

[Martin Keith]

Indeed, in the electric bass world, wenge has been a stape material for years - both in production shops like Warwick (until the mid-90s when they switched to ovankol/shedua) and also in high-end, single-builder boutique shops, most notably Mike Tobias/MTD who established quite a signature tone with solid wenge necks.

I've made a handful of basses with wenge necks, and between myself and Veillette we've made hundreds of instruments with wenge fingerboards.

For anyone that hasn't worked with it yet, don't be put off by its reputation for tough workability. Sure, you shouldn't sweep your hand along the grain - but that holds true for many materials IMO. It's really not that terrible. It bends beautifully, takes a high polish with fine sanding or scraping, and you can hide just about any repair in it - built-in camouflage! For that reason alone, it might be a good choice for an experimental builder, or someone just starting out. It's also much less oily/gummy than many rosewoods, which I prefer - it doesn't load up sandpaper nearly as much.

Tonally, I won't get into the comparison game - but I think it sounds wonderful. Bright, glassy ring, big open basses, and a very vibrant overall character IME. I have several more sets from a plank I cut up last year, and am really looking forward to using them.

Here's a couple shots of one I made in wenge - back, sides, fingerboard, bridge, and tailpiece, along with binding and headplates! A real wenge-fest:








Also - I have to ask: more than a few posts here have mentioned the smell - or, more specifically, the lack of smell compared to BRW. Is this really much of a consideration for anyone? Are we talking about a preference for the builder, or for the end user?

Cheers,
Martin

[Brackett Instruments]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Maybe this week it's the "new Brazilian", but if you wait long enough, there will be another "new Brazilian" coming soon to a builder near you!

To my ears Wenge is very similar tonally to Indian Rosewood................... Once Indian Rosewood was the "new Brazilian"

[Malcolm Kindnes]

I have just purchased a guitar made by a young luthier called Domhnal O'Rainne in Galway, Ireland. It has wenge back and sides and a cedar top and it sounds wonderful.

The shop owner, Kieran Moloney, told me that he had asked Domhnal to build a moderately priced guitar to see how it would sell, so the instrument is quite simple, rosewood fingerboard, no MOP for example. I imagine that the wenge was just a consequence of this economy, but the result is marvellous.

The only other wenge guitar that I have played was an Indian Hill, which was truly wonderful but an awful lot more expensive.

Check out Domhnal O'Rainne guitars at Kieran Moloneys music shop in Galway, there's no more wenge instruments in stock, but a couple of lovely 13 fretters which I found very appealing also.

[iim7V7IM7]

Well I will have the privilege in late August-early September to A/B both a Wenge and BRW Concerts (No. 99 and No. 100 build threads) by Kent Chasson to decide which I prefer for my playing style (note that I did not say "better"). This is a rare and unusual treat. Both guitars have Engelmann tops and are similarly constructed so it should be a very interesting experience comparing and contrasting them.

[Trevor M]

I have a wenge/Engelmann Chasson Concert in stock. Its a fantastic guitar. I will be very interested to know what you think of them.

[Hierophant]

I can't help myself, but I cannot say that I like BRW for its dramatic figure. I prefer the straight grained and evenly colored stuff.
As an alternative I'd always consider EIR. Really easy to work with, great looks (in my eyes) and the tone is just a classic. No need for Wenge here...

[ewh2]

Originally Posted by The Acoustic Music Co (TAMCO) UK

I have a wenge/Engelmann Chasson Concert in stock. Its a fantastic guitar. I will be very interested to know what you think of them.

I played that guitar. It's wonderful.