New Larry Robinson Inlay...impressive!

[DanSavage]

Originally Posted by TuckerRE

At least half-vast! Actually I haven't played it yet, but will report back once I do. Also planning to enter it into the Classical Listening Session at GAL - that should tell us a lot! You aren't doubting a Master Luthier's beneficial influence, are you?!

The initial posts on the thread indicated that the purpose of this project was show that the top wood and brace pattern, i.e.: voicing of the factory Ovation classical, was terrible and that a "Master Luthier's beneficial influence" would make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

The end result is a beautiful and beautifully built guitar. No doubt about it. But, as with any guitar, how it sounds is where the rubber meets the road. So, please do report back once you've had a chance to play it.

It would be interesting to hear how an untouched factory Ovation classical guitar sounds compared to this one.

FWIW, I'm finishing up an Ovation re-top project myself. I bought a circa-1976 Custom Legend and changed the top wood and brace pattern and am looking forward to seeing (hearing?) the end result.

[Steve Kinnaird]

Hey Dan, vast improvement in how the guitar sounds? Really hard to say.
Meaning: when we got it, it was still playable, but the old top had several bad cracks in it. And the strings were DOA. Hard to get a really honest assessment of how this old guitar once sounded.
Then, when finished with the renovation, I was honestly underwhelmed.
Ah, but about three days later we began to notice more sweetness and clarity in the trebles. I was hoping for that, knowing we had material and size (it does matter) working against us. The size of this guitar is appropriate for a steel string, not so much for a classical. Classicals typically have lovely basses, while struggling to keep the trebles on par. This large bowl was promising to swallow up the trebles, while enforcing unnecessarily the bass. Well...you know all this. Just venting some of my worries. But as I said, it is beginning to display some crispness in the trebles, and more sweetness overall. So I am optimistic that this guitar will be a usable, and pleasing, musical tool.

As well as fun to look at.

Steve

[DanSavage]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I suspect that over time, and with playing the top will continue to open up and it will become a really nice sounding guitar.

I agree with the fun to look at part. Like I said, it's a beautiful and beautifully-built guitar. The rosette and matching bridge work really sets it off.

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I thought I'd share a couple of pics of my Ovation project.

Here's what I started with.




And, here's where it is now.



I pulled the wood top off to preserve the original abalone purfling and binding, then cut the new top wood so it would fit inside. I also molded a patch for the hole in the back. I changed the bracing from the A-brace pattern to a forward, scalloped X-brace.

I'm applying the finish coats, then I'll glue the bridge down and see how it sounds.

[Steve Kinnaird]

Dan--wow, that's a beauty! And you did it the hard way to boot!
(At least it seems harder to me, dropping in the top to an existing border.)

The bearclaw Sitka is a wonderful choice. Just about my favorite top wood.
When you can, show us how the back turned out?

Thanks again,

Steve

[DanSavage]

Thanks, Steve.

Yes, I agree. Dropping the top inside an existing border is a lot harder. Not only that, I replaced the to wood without removing the neck or fingerboard extension. If you'd like a more detailed look at the process, you're welcome to visit my thread on the OFC site. (See: 1619-4 Rebuild...)

It's pretty tricky getting it to fit properly all the way around. Because of that, I'll probably not do it this way again. The only reason I did was to preserve as much of the original guitar as possible.

The bearclaw Sitka does look very pretty and I'm glad I went with it. I'm really looking forward to how it, combined with my choice of bracing, sounds.

Sure thing.I'll post a couple of pics and maybe a sound clip.

I'm getting close. In my inexperience I sanded the finish a little too thin in a couple of spots and I'm in the process of repairing it now.

One thing you might find interesting is my choice of finish. I wanted a lacquer finish, for all the reasons one might choose it, but I also wanted durability.

So, I borrowed finishing technology from the aviation world. In the aviation world, nitrocelluose lacquer is known as nitrate dope. It makes a wonderful primer, but its lack of chemical resistance makes it a poor choice for a top coat. I chose to use butyrate dope on top of the nitrate because it is extremely resistant to most chemicals, such as alcohol, gasoline, etc. Only the harshest chemicals dissolve it. (Acetone, toluene, MEK, etc.)

[Steve Kinnaird]

Dan, that finish is a new one on me.
And, I read that thread where you showed your process of restoration.
Most impressive.
Patch, the restoration of old Ovations is in good hands.
Not sure Dan would want to make a career of this, but he could.

Thanks for the inspiration,

Steve

[DanSavage]

Steve,

Thanks for the kind words. I find work done by you and Larry equally inspiring.

WRT the butyrate dope finish, it's still lacquer, just a different formulation that makes it more durable once it's dried. That's the nice thing about using it and why I chose it --to get all the benefits of a lacquer finish with none of the drawbacks. You're already familiar with nitrate dope. You just know it as nitrocellulose lacquer.

It's also fairly cheap. The cost of the two dopes, thinners and retarder was less than $75.

[TuckerRE]

I don't think Steve was just being his humble self. I think he had reasonable concerns, given the guitar's huge lower bout. Just this evening I took possession and got an hour of playing it... And it sounds fantastic now (whether it has 'opened-up', I obviously cannot judge), but it has a huge presence, incredible clarity and a richness it did not have before. I liked the sound before and played it an awful lot, so I can easily tell the Vast Improvement!

We'll hear it compared with other world-class classical guitars here on Friday and will be able to report further. I will also record a clip or two next week to post (with Ryan's help), so you can judge for yourself. But honestly, a most incredible sound. And from across the room, I think even a humble Steve was inclined to agree, tonight!

Am I putting words in your mouth, Steve!?

[patchmcg]

Originally Posted by TuckerRE

I don't think Steve was just being his humble self. I think he had reasonable concerns, given the guitar's huge lower bout. Just this evening I took possession and got an hour of playing it... And it sounds fantastic now (whether it has 'opened-up', I obviously cannot judge), but it has a huge presence, incredible clarity and a richness it did not have before. I liked the sound before and played it an awful lot, so I can easily tell the Vast Improvement!

We'll hear it compared with other world-class classical guitars here on Friday and will be able to report further. I will also record a clip or two next week to post (with Ryan's help), so you can judge for yourself. But honestly, a most incredible sound. And from across the room, I think even a humble Steve was inclined to agree, tonight!

Am I putting words in your mouth, Steve!?

And therein lies the penultimate opinion! When the buyer's happy, all else is moot!

Enjoy it in good health! And if you ever get anywhere near the north east US, you better bring it with you!

[hreboredo]

Wow guys -- you're tempting me to grab my old Ovation that still sits in my mom's house and have someone put a proper top on it.

Humberto

[TuckerRE]

I may be the penultimate, because you'll be ultimate!

[patchmcg]

....well....I was trying to be humble and all that.....

[Steve Kinnaird]

Originally Posted by TuckerRE

We'll hear it compared with other world-class classical guitars here on Friday and will be able to report further. I will also record a clip or two next week to post (with Ryan's help), so you can judge for yourself. But honestly, a most incredible

You're right, Bob. It's the back to back comparison that will be the best judge of what that new top is doing. I'm really looking forward to hearing both it's strengths and weaknesses. Though I feel pretty familiar with the latter, it will be nice to sit in front of it and hear it in the hands of a good player. We will see!

Thanks again guys,

Steve

[TuckerRE]

My personal ranking amongst the other 38 guitars had us in the top quartile. I was honestly surprised it didn't come off louder than it did, or bassier (meaning too bassy).

It was very balanced... One of the best in balance, top to bottom. No notorious g-string deadness. Very pleasant.

And I learned that the masters say never play a new classical guitar in public for at least a year. So not a bad for strings on for only a few weeks.

Lots coming by the table to admire. All-in-all very satisfying. Thank you, honestly, thank you Steve and Ryan for taking on the project!!

[Steve Kinnaird]

As always, Bob, the pleasure was ours.
Well, ok...the parlor was more fun. But this guitar, which drove us out of our comfort zone for sure, yielded other kinds of rewards.
It was more challenging than building a steel string. As a result we learned more. And no doubt those are the situations where real growth as a luthier occurs.
So really, we thank you for your confidence, and the chance to branch out a bit.

Steve