Latency issue with Snowball USB mic

[AtlJohn]

Hi folks -

Reader's Digest version: Do i need a newer/better sound card?

Detailed version:
Have been enjoying recording with my Blue "Snowball" usb mic, but to this point i've been limited to one-track recordings only, due to the latency causing a slight delay between what i'm hearing myself play/sing, and what actually gets recorded. It makes it impossible to synch up tracks, and that's frustrating.

I'm running Win XP Pro on a somewhat older system, with a basic SoundMax sound card, which unfortunately is MME not ASIO. When i record using Adobe Audition, the lowest latency setting i can use is 50 ms......anything lower produces noisy, spooky recordings. So that's one problem.

I've followed Adobe's guide as much as possible:
http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/825/cpsid_82500.html

And also the AudioForum's Audio Optimization guide:
http://www.audioforums.com/resources...imization.html

....but still get unworkable latency delays. Curiously, in a much simpler and more-basic DAW, "MixPad", the delay is minimal....closer than with Audition, but it's still there. Audacity is useless, i uninstalled it. I'll try Reaper next.

Is this as simple as getting a better sound card, or could RAM be involved, or processor speed, or something else?

Thanks!,
-js

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by AtlJohn

Hi folks -
...It makes it impossible to synch up tracks, and that's frustrating.

Hi js…
You should be able to realign the latent tracks in post-production depending on the software you are using.

Don't know if you need a better card, different program or what. If you dig around in the menus you may find a software setting in the prefs to dial down the latency depending on your computer's RAM and processor. If it is fast and you have plenty of RAM you will be able to dial it down closer to instant.

You still may need to realign a track now and then.

[moon]

Processor speed does have a small effect on latency but it shouldn't be contributing anything like 50ms. RAM doesn't affect latency at all. You will need to have enough to avoid paging though.

So it's either the mic or lack of ASIO. I don't know enough about Windows to say.

Bit of a longshot, but you could download AVLinux and (I think) boot from the installer CD without actually installing anything. If you get much better latency in linux you'll know it's not the mic.

[Ty Ford]

"Have been enjoying recording with my Blue "Snowball" usb mic, but to this point i've been limited to one-track recordings only, due to the latency causing a slight delay between what i'm hearing myself play/sing, and what actually gets recorded. It makes it impossible to synch up tracks, and that's frustrating."

In my experience, that's not uncommon with USB. Firewire systems are faster and don't have the latency problem.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[ferg]

I've experienced this type of latency with both USB and firewire systems. It varies depending on how much you're processing the signal in the software, but it always seems to be there, even if it's very slight.

It's for this reason I wouldn't even consider an audio interface that didn't have direct hardware (true zero latency) monitoring.

Of course, if you're doing things like using a software amp modeler for electric guitar, this won't help you - you really need to hear the processed sound in that case. For vocals and acoustic instruments, though, I find something with hardware monitoring works best.

[Ty Ford]

I haven't had those problems with Pro Tools LE and a digi 001. 002r or 003r.

002 and 003 are FW 400.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

I haven't had those problems with Pro Tools LE and a digi 001. 002r or 003r.

002 and 003 are FW 400.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hi Ty…
I've used Firewire interfaces for over a decade, and older ones have latency issues - not unsolvable though.

And I'm still using a Firewire interface with a good hardware option to dial out the latency, but even some USB have those.

The ProTools/DiGi stuff are great, but definitely high ticket items.

On the lower cost front, even the meager $179 Lexicon Omega USB2 has 6 inputs, full 48v phantom, and hardware zero-latency options.

The real culprits are still RAM, and software being used - coupled with the interface design.

All latency can be compensated for adequately, with modern equipment and software. Even if a track has to be realigned a bit.

[PorkPieGuy]

Seems like I played around with sampling rates one time and fixed latency issues. I can't remember; it's been a while.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by AtlJohn

... but to this point i've been limited to one-track recordings only, due to the latency causing a slight delay between what i'm hearing myself play/sing, and what actually gets recorded. It makes it impossible to synch up tracks, and that's frustrating.
...

Originally Posted by ferg

...
It's for this reason I wouldn't even consider an audio interface that didn't have direct hardware (true zero latency) monitoring.

Of course, if you're doing things like using a software amp modeler for electric guitar, this won't help you - you really need to hear the processed sound in that case. For vocals and acoustic instruments, though, I find something with hardware monitoring works best.

i think maybe you are monitoring yourself through the software, and that is where the latency is coming from. with my computers, both win xp and win 7, even with asio drivers there is too much latency to try and play back one track, recording another, and monitor the mix from the computer. you need to find a way to either monitor directly or avoid monitoring what you are recording. then, you will either need to sync up the two tracks, or configure your software to automatically adjust for the discrepancy.

the latency settings on the software aren't to adjust for live monitoring purposes, but rather to sync up the recording tracks with existing playback tracks (for subsequent playback, after recording).

at least that's the way i see it.

[muscmp]

you may need a better audio interface as lj suggested.

i remember years ago when i was recording thru a computer soundcard, i would have to lower the buffer for recording and raise it for monitoring. don't know if that would help in today's environment.

also, as lj mentioned, you may have to move the track to align it properly.

[AtlJohn]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm honestly a recording newbie, and not particularly computer/tech-adept either. I've been at this all day, and....

Roughly in order:

lj - You said "dig around the menus".....what menus? The DAW? If so, i've already found that Audition's lowest listenable setting, for me, is 50ms. If you're not talking about the DAW, i'm pretty much clueless.

PorkPieGuy - Changing the sampling rate, at least in and of itself, didn't change anything for me, but thanks for the suggestion.

mc1 - Honestly i'm not completely sure what you mean by monitoring myself through the software. FWIW, in Audition there are a couple of "Monitor" options, and i'm not using either of them. ie. the mic i'm using is good/bad enough to enable me to record Track 2 while listening to Track 1 playing loudly enough over the speakers so that i can hear it over my playing/singing, yet no residual Track 1 audio is recorded onto Track 2.

You kind of lost me with the rest of your post and again i apologize for my lack of knowledge.

mc1 and lj - I get that, in theory, if i strummed Track 2 in perfect synch with what i was hearing out of Track 1, but later found a latency delay, that i ought to be able to manipulate Track 2 and move it either back or forward a little (effectively, the amount of the latency delay) and align it sonically with Track 1.......i'm just not there yet, on the learning curve. The software is supposed to be very user-friendly, but i'm extremely intimidated and find myself fighting it at every turn.

After much research, i have downloaded and installed a driver called ASIO4All which is widely purported to be a great workaround for the inherent latency delay issues in Windows/MME setups, and attempted a quick 2-track effort in Audition, after a GREAT many adjustments and tweaks.

If i can ever get Audition now to fully load, i'll be able to report further.

-js

[mc1]

Originally Posted by AtlJohn

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm honestly a recording newbie, and not particularly computer/tech-adept either. I've been at this all day, and....

Roughly in order:

lj - You said "dig around the menus".....what menus? The DAW? If so, i've already found that Audition's lowest listenable setting, for me, is 50ms. If you're not talking about the DAW, i'm pretty much clueless.

PorkPieGuy - Changing the sampling rate, at least in and of itself, didn't change anything for me, but thanks for the suggestion.

mc1 - Honestly i'm not completely sure what you mean by monitoring myself through the software. FWIW, in Audition there are a couple of "Monitor" options, and i'm not using either of them. ie. the mic i'm using is good/bad enough to enable me to record Track 2 while listening to Track 1 playing loudly enough over the speakers so that i can hear it over my playing/singing, yet no residual Track 1 audio is recorded onto Track 2.

You kind of lost me with the rest of your post and again i apologize for my lack of knowledge.

mc1 and lj - I get that, in theory, if i strummed Track 2 in perfect synch with what i was hearing out of Track 1, but later found a latency delay, that i ought to be able to manipulate Track 2 and move it either back or forward a little (effectively, the amount of the latency delay) and align it sonically with Track 1.......i'm just not there yet, on the learning curve. The software is supposed to be very user-friendly, but i'm extremely intimidated and find myself fighting it at every turn.

After much research, i have downloaded and installed a driver called ASIO4All which is widely purported to be a great workaround for the inherent latency delay issues in Windows/MME setups, and attempted a quick 2-track effort in Audition, after a GREAT many adjustments and tweaks.

If i can ever get Audition now to fully load, i'll be able to report further.

-js

hi js,

it takes some time for the audio to go into the mic, then through the usb port, onto your hard drive, then back out to your speakers/headphones.

so while recording track 2, you don't want to also be listening to it coming out of your computer. you only want to hear track 1. my assumption is that you are having both track 1 (previously recorded) and track 2 (currently being recorded) playing back, and so they are not sync'd up and will sound funny. you can tell the software not to monitor the recording track, and you will want to do that.

if you record track 2 while only monitoring (listening to the playback from the computer of) track 1, then you won't hear the latency.

ok, now you have 2 tracks, played together, but out of sync. you then need to use your software to align track 2 and track 1. if you notice how much you need to move track 2, you will then know the correct latency value to use in your software settings.

hope this helps,
mc1

[AtlJohn]

Welp, it looks to my very untrained eye that the culprit may just be Audition itself, given its apparent "minimum Latency setting" of 50 ms.

Pretty much every other software i try delivers minimal or no latency.

Been at it all day, and here is what i was finally able to "accomplish" tonight, even though Reaper did NOT always want to allow me to add additional tracks.

Please understand this is only a boring 2-chord noodle, but on the other hand if you suffer from insomnia this may be your cure...

http://soundcloud.com/atljs

Thx again,
-js

[moon]

I've only dipped a toe into Reaper but it looks like a very capable DAW. Glad you got the latency thing sorted out.