2 x Special Wenge Classical Guitars...

[Ned Milburn]

Hello Friends,

I am presently building twin classical guitars with African wenge sides & back.

The guitars will both have a special feature - an asymmetrical dropped top (elevated fingerboard) with high C notes on the fingerboard extension.

Both guitars have my own designed rosette - a Celtic cross - that I estimate has in total over 7000 pieces of wood. Of course, the manufacturing process is such that each piece is not laid individually, but still it is a timely endeavour.

One guitar has a Canadian Englemann spruce top, and the other a western Canadian red cedar top.

I am posting some photos of the first of my asymmetrical dropped top guitars so you'll have an idea what the twin guitars will look like when done, and then some photos of the build process.

Feel free to comment or ask questions along the way.

Cheers!!

[Ned Milburn]

And some photos of the present builds...

Rosette making!!

[Bruce Sexauer]

Now yer talkin'!

[Ned Milburn]

Crafting the soundboard...

Soundboards are still oversize (about 1cm extra around the edges) at this stage.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Now yer talkin'!

;-) Cheers!! ;-)

[cobalt60]

Nice looking tops. Would you be willing to share whatever weights / dimensions of those top bracing you're using? Particularly interested in the ones above the soundhole. Do you ever use a bridge patch, or is the longer brace your go-to?

Definitely want to see the Wenge wood!

[riffmeister]

What size fret wire and what tuners are in the guitar of the opening post?

Your rosettes are gorgeous, I particularly like the Celtic cross. And the rest of the guitar ain't too shabby, either!

[Ned Milburn]

And I've begun work on the backs... African wenge that I resaw myself. Hard, dense, stiff... Dulls all bladed tools very quickly, but worth the extra effort.

I am "old school" with a lot of my techniques. I finish my tops, backs, and sides with scrapers. And in fact I cut my rosette channels with a hand crafted rosette cutter and chisel (but I should have mentioned this above with the rosettes...).





If it's just dust, your scraper and/or your scraper technique isn't working for you.





The scraper can yield a mirror-like surface unrivalled by sandpaper.







Spanish cedar back braces. Linings, too, will be solid Spanish cedar bent to shape with an iron. I LOVE the smell of a guitar with Spanish cedar inside. Opening the case is an olfactory joy!!

Centre strips are cut-offs from the soundboards - red cedar and Englemann spruce. I just glued in the braces today, and cleaned up the squeeze out with bone scraper and dampened cotton ball, so witness marks can still be seen from the glue clean up. This will be scraped and/or sanded away after the braces are shaped.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by cobalt60

Nice looking tops. Would you be willing to share whatever weights / dimensions of those top bracing you're using? Particularly interested in the ones above the soundhole. Do you ever use a bridge patch, or is the longer brace your go-to?

Definitely want to see the Wenge wood!

My braces fall well within standard measurements. Harmonic bars are anywhere from 6 to 7mm wide, and 15 to 16.5mm tall. My fingerboard extension upper bout braces start at 7mm wide by 10mm tall, but again you can see that they are formed with a taper and slight scallop to the ends.

I have not built a classical or flamenco with a bridge plate/patch yet. I may, or may not in the future. I'm not convinced of its necessity, especially considering my fan brace contours.

Re: the wenge - your wish is my command!! Presto!!! (see above ;-)

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by riffmeister

What size fret wire and what tuners are in the guitar of the opening post?

Your rosettes are gorgeous, I particularly like the Celtic cross. And the rest of the guitar ain't too shabby, either!

Thanks for your comments.

The fretwire in the completed guitar pictured is jumbo fret wire as commissioned by a very talented student at Ottawa University. Those frets also contain a subtle secret. There is a slight radius on the treble side, but none on the bass side. I was inspired to custom fretwork back in 1998 that was even more radical than this subtle mod after seeing classical double basses and cellos with asymmetrical V-shaped fingerboards. (An internet search will likely yield photos.)

For the classical guitar barre, I often had trouble near the G and B strings with the full barre, since my 2nd knuckle is fairly bulbous. Designing a fingerboard/fretboard this way aids in the barre, and is truly subtle enough that you'd likely not spot it without being told, but then after learning it exists, you'd notice it and likely appreciate it. I have done this "mod" to several guitars already (classical and flamenco), and the owners invariably like the feature.

The tuners are basic tuners that fit the student's budget. (Although another instrument I built got 800 dollar hand crafted tuners by Jorg Graf!! Those tuners were SWEET!!!)

I will be outfitting these new guitars with Schaller Grand Tune machine heads with ball-bearing rollers. Can't wait to try them out!!

[Gitfiddlemann]

I had heard about wenge as a viable alternative to brazilian rosewood for tonal characteristics. Do you consider it as such as well?
Really nice looking guitars! Your workmanship looks impeccable and I like your approach to building.
The rosettes are amazing. I must ask though: In view of the extra labor involved, does it impact the overall price of the build accordingly versus more traditional rosette building? Just curious. I don't mean to imply anything negative about this aspect. They do look super and aesthetically very classy!
Thanks for sharing these pics of your builds. Very nice work!

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by AndreF

I had heard about wenge as a viable alternative to brazilian rosewood for tonal characteristics. Do you consider it as such as well?
Really nice looking guitars! Your workmanship looks impeccable and I like your approach to building.
The rosettes are amazing. I must ask though: In view of the extra labor involved, does it impact the overall price of the build accordingly versus more traditional rosette building? Just curious. I don't mean to imply anything negative about this aspect. They do look super and aesthetically very classy!
Thanks for sharing these pics of your builds. Very nice work!

Thanks for your comments, Andre.

The wenge I have is very dense. And it is a very stiff wood. The wood database lists wenge's average density as very similar to EIR and BRW, but either the samples I have are un-representatively dense, or the wood database figures are un-representatively light. Either way, the wenge wood is dense and stiff. I have only built a steel string with wenge, so these are my first 2 classicals with wenge. I have not built with BRW but have handled the raw wood, as well as many guitars with BRW and owned a hand made classical guitar with BRW. The wenge I have, being so dense, will be like BRW on steroids. The denser and stiffer a wood is, the less of a dampening effect it will have on the function of the top. It is a subtle and complex relationship, but a perfect opportunity for developing understanding this relationship is the difference between a relatively dense side/back classical guitar and a non-dense side/back flamenco guitar. A flamenco guitar's sustain (decay) tends to fall away fairly quickly and directly, where as a classical tends to have a longer sustain/decay. A lighter & less stiff wood will tend to have greater dampening or absorption of the soundboard's energy, where as the denser and stiffer woods will not absorb and dissipate this energy as quickly, allow the energy to recycle through the top with greater sustain. The absorption of the soundboard's energy is not just related to sustain, however: it will also have bearing on tonal character (EQ) by absorbing some areas of frequency more than others. And the resultant auditory effect will be different depending upon the soundboard design. Hence, sometimes a flamenco guitar can be dark sounding, sometimes bright sounding, even if built with the same woods. The same can be said for a steel string built with mahogany B&S.

Long winded... Sorry. I expect this wenge wood is going to give the guitars a bit more of a clear and focused tone, with greater sustain than similar ones with Indian rosewood B&S. My soundboards are designed to 1) be loud, 2) be balanced with similar body in notes across and along the fingerboard, 3) to be harmonically rich (similar design concept to #2), and 4) to avoid wolf tones. The wenge in the case of my soundboard should help the soundboard do its job and do it well, with a bit more "oomf" like turning the volume up to 10.5 from 10, or pressing "loudness" button. It is going to be interesting to hear how much difference there is in the cedar top and the Englemann spruce top. The cedar has greater brightness at the high treble end (likely higher than most overtones on a guitar). The Englemann top at this point sounds more biased towards the bass. Once they are completed, I expect the cedar to retain a slightly brighter "edge" to its attack, but the sustain/decay or "body" of the note will likely be very similar.

Regarding the rosettes and pricing... These are the first 2 hand made rosettes for me. My guitars are presently priced at well below similar quality instruments on the market place, so retain a high value-per-cost ratio. And indeed I have played a few guitars priced higher than mine that have had some unfortunate fatal flaws. (A non-North American builder's instruments I tried a couple years ago stick in my mind as particular examples of expensive instruments with mediocre craftsmanship (fretwork/woodwork) with a tone very poorly balanced such that the high E string near the C# note and higher sounded as weak as a LaPatrie beginner instrument.) So, adding my own hand crafted rosettes allows me to approach a fairer market price for my instruments, while adding extra value and keeping high value-to-cost ratio for the purchaser. I will possibly retain the option of a discount for over-the-counter rosettes for "student" models when people are concerned about affordability, but even that is questionable for these reasons. 1) I take great pride in the instruments I make, and strive for the best I can in every instrument. I would prefer to avoid "dumbing down" my instruments. On a classical guitar, one of the areas allowing greatest artistic expression and showmanship of craftsmanship is the rosette. 2) "Jigging up" for these rosettes and thinking about my own particular manufacturing procedure was time consuming but also is something that only needs to be done once. So, any future rosette I make will not be as time consuming. Hence, any discount I might be able to give accurately reflecting time-savings would still be largely insignificant in consideration of the total cost of the instrument.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Ned,
Many thanks for your thoughtful and informative reply.
This wenge has piqued my interest. Besides its star power looks (on your builds anyway) it appears to have great potential for classicals, be it paired with spruce or cedar. Based on the tonal description you gave I'd most likely be a cedar guy.
I also like the idea of the elevated fingerboard on classical guitars to provide easier access, and retain their looks.

Very nice indeed Mr. Milburn! Just another of these threads that make it sooooooo difficult to hang out here sometimes.
Thanks again for your info and looking forward to even more pics as you progress towards completion!

[EarthBalm]

Beautiful looking back you have there. Nice work!

[tkoehler1]

My what beautiful guitars!