12 String Action Height

[SirKengin]

Hey everybody,

I've been playing an old Applause 12 string for a few months just for kicks, and I'm wondering what sort of action height is normal for the different strings. Currently, it's set up so the 8va strings are lower than the main string, which is fine when I'm using a flat pick, but any fingerstyle is nearly impossible because I can't hit the high string with anything but my thumb. Is this the way most 12 strings are set up, or can the action be flatter so I can go back and forth between picking/fingerstyle?

Many thanks!

[Explorer]

Are you saying that all the strings are the same height from the frets, with the bottom of the nut slots at the same level? If set up that way, then the only thing which would have to conform would be the skin of the fingertip(s) while fretting, so that each string in the pairs would bend the same amount to reach the fretboard, no?

If you set it up so that the strings were even on the tops at the nut, opposite how their bottom surfaces are all at the same level at the saddle, that seems like the octave strings would be slightly longer than the lower string of the unison pairs. I suspect that would also add some issues.

It sounds like you're at the beginning of learning how to play the 12-string guitar. Just as you might not have been able to effectively do fingerstyle playing on six-string at the beginning, because it was strange to reach between two strings to pluck with your thumb, now you just have to get used to sticking your thumb into that space so you're coming at the side of the octave strings.

You can either have your 12-string set up in a way which will introduce intonation issues, in order to avoid building technique, or just knuckle down and learn the technique from the start.

Whichever path you choose, good luck!

[nycbeijinger]

Am not sure what you're asking but all of the strings on my 12-string are at the same height and the action is pretty low. I finger pick, too, and it's not THAT much different from playing a six-string but is slightly different nevertheless. It just takes a little practice to get used to it. -

[SirKengin]

I'm not sure what the exchange rate is like on pictures to words these days, but I hope this helps clarify the question. The red arrow shows how I need to move my I M A and C fingers while picking. You are correct in that I'm still quite new to 12-string, but I expected it to be a little more similar to the mechanics of 6-string fingerstyle where my fingers move more parallel to the body (though it is certainly possible I've been doing that wrongly for many years!). I had some concerns about messing with the intonation by changing the action on some strings, but to be honest this guitar already has issues staying in tune with itself and mostly I was curious if the necessary adjustment would be to the guitar first or to my technique. Some day I hope to be proficient enough at the instrument to spend more than $50 on a used one, and I'd rather not completely undo my learning when that happens.

[rmoretti49]

I unfortunately don't understand your photo. But in response to your original message, Taylor 12 strings use a fully compensated saddle which places all the strings on the same surface plane for the picking or strumming hand. I'm not entirely sure this applies to all models, and I believe it is an innovation of only the past couple of years or so.

[Explorer]

My big suggestion is to just watch youtube vids and see/hear how people are playing.

Even the 12-string players who are attempting to play just one string out of the the octave courses wind up playing both, so I'm reasonably certain you'll get it down.

[fazool]

The high strings will always sit lower be a use of the smaller diameter. It is something you will get used to easily in tIme.

[jemartin]

Playing fingerstyle on my Guild jumbo F512 is relatively easy... these days.. since I have had to learn to let my right hand thumbnail grow long enough to
bite into the octave strings. I let the left outside area of the thumbnail grow and trim the right side of it to keep it from catching and tearing on anything. When my nail is long I get great octave growl when fingerpicking on the bass strings with that thumbnail. The only drawback is to protect it so that it doesn't get broken. This also works well for me on the 6 string to get good volume and control as well.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by rmoretti49

Taylor 12 strings use a fully compensated saddle which places all the strings on the same surface plane for the picking or strumming hand. I'm not entirely sure this applies to all models, and I believe it is an innovation of only the past couple of years or so.

Personally, I have never understood why this configuration wasn't standard on 12 strings right from the earliest days. Simplicity itself to make the nut slots all the same height, and to shape the saddle so that the tops of all the string pairs are in the same plane.

Fret heights would need to be at least .045" to enable clean fretting higher up the fretboard, but playing higher up the board isn't a priority for most 12 string players.

Actually, I do understand why not ... it's a lot more work.

[Explorer]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

...playing higher up the board isn't a priority for most 12 string players.

Actually, I do understand why not ... it's a lot more work.

I've also been told by various flatpickers that there's no reason for anyone to go higher than the fifth fret. *laugh*

Over the past two weeks, I have played above the 8th fret quite a bit on 12-string, and all my instruments with cutaways actually have that feature utilized on a regular basis, but I do agree that most players on both 6-string and 12-string waste their money on buying an instrument with higher frets.

And when they combine that avoidance with a cutaway, it's like buying a house with mutiple stories but never going higher than the ground floor.

[12 string]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

... playing higher up the board isn't a priority for most 12 string players.

Well, I want to disagree with that but actually I suppose it's all too true.

Playing higher up the board is a priority for the 12 stringerites I have respected, admired and emulated, however.

' Strang