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  #1  
Old 06-17-2013, 11:36 AM
Eel Eel is offline
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Unhappy Broken 12 string headstock

Hey all. I'm new here and require some help. I recently went to play my ibanez 12 string and when I opened up the case I found it cracked. The guitar was only 500 bucks or so. My wife got it for me as an anniversary present so I would really like to repair it. I live 3 hours away from the nearest luthier so I was hoping to repair it myself. The break is not complete. The first picture shows the break, which ends right in the middle of the first set of tuning peg holes
http://instagram.com/p/aqyU7DJpO7/
The next pic is me pulling the break apart as far as it will go till I start to hear slight cracking noises.
http://instagram.com/p/aqyqCuJpPe/

I have some pro carpenters wood glue that advertises 3500 psi holding strength. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated . I can also add more pics if needed.

Last edited by Eel; 06-17-2013 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:47 AM
HHP HHP is offline
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Up to you, but I wouldn't try fixing it myself. May need a bit more than just some glue. I imagine a pro fix would involve inserting some reinforcement dowels to secure the two pieces. Not a great choice for a 1st attempt at repair.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:36 PM
Eel Eel is offline
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I've seen a lot of head stocks glued on by searching the web. Would it need dowels because it is a 12 string? Wouldn't the glue joint be stronger than the wood itself? When I push the break together it is pretty much seamless by just squeezing with my hands.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:18 PM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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This one should be fairly simple to glue. But, I'd recommend fine syringes (hypodermic) with 15% or so watered down glue. Put the needle as deep into the crack as you can moving with the grain, rather than against, so that you will not make any aesthetic damage, or more importantly, so you don't damage the fibres within the crack. If the fibres get damaged, it is tough to close cracks fully. You may need 3 to 4 entry points for inserting the glue. When you are sure that the crack is fully coated with glue, then remove the syringe and clamp overnight. Don't worry about squeeze-out because it can be cleaned from the finish later with a water-dampened cotton ball.

I don't think it will need dowels or such at this point if it is reglued well.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:27 PM
Eel Eel is offline
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Where can I get some hypos to do inject the glue?
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Old 06-17-2013, 02:43 PM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eel View Post
Where can I get some hypos to do inject the glue?
Local drug store. Get a few different sizes to make sure you get one small enough to insert into the crack, but large enough to carry enough glue. And it sometimes helps to file down the tip a little bit so it doesn't grab into the wood fibres. Thoughtful placement of the needle can remove the need to file the tip.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:34 PM
Zigeuner Zigeuner is offline
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Above advice is correct. What I do with a crack such as that is first have all necessary clamps ready. Your clamps should have soft jaws. I added cork to mine. Then I take a clean cloth and soak it in hot water. I apply the water to the crack, making sure that the crack is fully wetted all the way through. Then apply liberal amounts of slightly thinned glue with your hypodermic syringe. The water will help to pull the glue into the crack by capillary action. I use Elmer's Canpenter glue.

Once you have the crack filled with glue, apply your clamps. Wipe off excess glue on the outside and set the guitar aside for several days before performing the final cleaning and restringing. Hot water will remove the excess dried glue.

By the way, another good source for hypodermic syringes are feed stores where they are sold for use on livestock. They are very inexpensive. I grind the tips off of the needles so that they won't stick me.

I use light gauge 80-20 bronze strings on my 12 string and tune to D, one full step low.

Good luck.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:13 PM
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fazool fazool is online now
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Default titebond

use Titebond not Elmer's glue. You want solvent based hide glue for structural repair.
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:32 PM
Zigeuner Zigeuner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazool View Post
use Titebond not Elmer's glue. You want solvent based hide glue for structural repair.
Yeah, yeah. I've built a number of guitars (9) using Elmer's.

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Old 06-17-2013, 08:56 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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Elmer's Carpenter's glue and Titebond are essentially the same thing. I have used both interchangeably for over 30 years.
What is solvent based hide glue?
I am not a fan of using dowels for this repair.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
Elmer's Carpenter's glue and Titebond are essentially the same thing. I have used both interchangeably for over 30 years.
What is solvent based hide glue?
I am not a fan of using dowels for this repair.
No Elmer's and Titebond are a bit different.

Original Hide Glue is a protein that joins muscle and tissue, etc. This protein bonds to organics like wood and creates a protein chemical bond instead of a simple mechanical bond. Its stronger than the wood itself, however it is removable with heat > 140degF.

It's very inconvenient to use because it hardens quickly as it cools, so there is a variant that uses a urea solvent to keep it liquid and then it cures over a long time, purportedly with the same strength.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:41 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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Urea solvent?
I know about using urea to extend the working time of HHG, but I have never heard of 'urea solvent'.
Like I said, Titeboind and Elmer's Carpenter's glue (not Elmer's white glue) can be used interchangeably.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:59 PM
Zigeuner Zigeuner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
Urea solvent?
I know about using urea to extend the working time of HHG, but I have never heard of 'urea solvent'.
Like I said, Titeboind and Elmer's Carpenter's glue (not Elmer's white glue) can be used interchangeably.
I certainly agree. Many fine luthiers use both plus animal hide glue. Any of them could be used to fix that neck.

Urea is a base for many glues. I don't know what urea solvent is either.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:15 PM
BradHall BradHall is offline
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Good advice here on the repair steps. One other thing....stop pulling the break apart "till you hear the wood crack". The next time may be the last.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:14 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazool View Post
use Titebond not Elmer's glue. You want solvent based hide glue for structural repair.
We've been through this at least once before. Franklin makes a number of different adhesives called "titebond". You are referring to their liquid hide glue. As John pointed out urea is not a solvent for hide glue: it extends the open time of the glue and makes it liquid at room temperature.

Titebond I is an aliphatic resin glue, as is Elmer's wood glue. As John said they are interchangeable.
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12 string, broken, headstock failure

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