Yamaha FGX5 intonation and break angle

[YamahaGuy]

A few Yamaha FGX5 owners have mentioned issues with intonation on the low e string especially. I had the same issue, so I reshaped my saddle in an attempt to help but it made little difference. Also, I noticed my high e string sounding a little fluttery or sitar-like, but the nut is not too low. What I noticed is that even though there were slight relief grooves cut in the bridge, that the break angle on the e strings (hi and low) were very shallow. I filed in some deeper slots and now the high e no longer sounds fluttery, and is actually more resonant. The low E seems to put out noticeably more bass. Finally, there is less of on intonation issue on the low E string.

The point: don't underestimate break angle when it comes to tone, intonation, setup, etc.

[Martin_F]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

A few Yamaha FGX5 owners have mentioned issues with intonation on the low e string especially. I had the same issue, so I reshaped my saddle in an attempt to help but it made little difference. Also, I noticed my high e string sounding a little fluttery or sitar-like, but the nut is not too low. What I noticed is that even though there were slight relief grooves cut in the bridge, that the break angle on the e strings (hi and low) were very shallow. I filed in some deeper slots and now the high e no longer sounds fluttery, and is actually more resonant. The low E seems to put out noticeably more bass. Finally, there is less of on intonation issue on the low E string.

The point: don't underestimate break angle when it comes to tone, intonation, setup, etc.

I think the sitar sound would be a product of the very wide saddle and the break angle where the string leaves. I personally don't like when saddles are overly rounded because that sitar-like sound is very possible under the right conditions. The wide saddle should give people a lot of room to get someone to intonate the guitar very well. However, I would doubt that the intonation is out any more than any other acoustic. Guitars, by their very nature, are always out of tune.

I have checked the intonation on my Yamaha FS5 and I think it's very acceptable for an acoustic guitar. Of course, I could play with it and maybe get it better. But guitar being what it is, I find its easier to not be so picky because as soon as you change to another brand of strings, things will all change again.

As with any guitar, the Yamaha's could use a good setup that would easily fix these issues. Nothing mentioned is a manufacturing defect of any kind. These production places do a simple setup that may be alright for your average player. But, everyone likes a different feel. So, that is up to personal preference.

My opinion.

Martin

[Mirosh]

"I filed in some deeper slots and now the high e no longer sounds fluttery" - Yamaha Guy

So I can understand this better: are you filing the top of the saddle, or the slots in the bridge the strings pass through on their way to the underside of the body? (I think you mean the latter, but I am learning this.) How much deeper?

On my FG800, the high E string's windings near its barrel end are showing at the top of that slot. Maybe the thickness of the windings keeps the string from sitting at the steeper angle that might be desirable. What would you say about deepening and also widening that slot?

Thanks for your posts. I have a fairly new AC1R and this newer FG800 and I am enjoying playing them and refining them, but want to stop short messing something up.

[ctvolfan]

I absolutely love my FGX5 but the low E string drives me nuts when I capo and I like to capo a lot. The high E doesn't bother me and have not noticed the flutter. I will be interested too in how much you filed it. This guitar will be perfect if I could just get that corrected. By the way I finally plugged into an amp and the pickups are outstanding!

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by Mirosh

"I filed in some deeper slots and now the high e no longer sounds fluttery" - Yamaha Guy

So I can understand this better: are you filing the top of the saddle, or the slots in the bridge the strings pass through on their way to the underside of the body? (I think you mean the latter, but I am learning this.) How much deeper?

On my FG800, the high E string's windings near its barrel end are showing at the top of that slot. Maybe the thickness of the windings keeps the string from sitting at the steeper angle that might be desirable. What would you say about deepening and also widening that slot?

Thanks for your posts. I have a fairly new AC1R and this newer FG800 and I am enjoying playing them and refining them, but want to stop short messing something up.

I am talking about relief routes in the bridge behind the saddle. Now, I had re shaped the top of the saddle on the low E to compensate and get a longer string length as well. But to correct the break angle, I am talking about relief routes. Some strings, like Ernie Ball Paradigms and Martin Marquis have winding/wrap that is wide and goes up the string from the ball end farther than others. A pro luthier in my area filed in relief routes when he worked on my LLX6A. I tried to go off his work. I understand wanting to stop shy of messing up. Guitars are adjustable, and surprisingly there are lots of adjustments to be made in the set-up. As for the windings on the high e, I wouldn't worry about widening that slot.

[YamahaGuy]

Worth a look:
https://hazeguitars.com/blog/acousti...ng-break-angle

[Mirosh]

Thanks, Yamaha Guy, for those responses.

I am deepening the FG800's nut at string #2 - it's a little high, and that string goes a bit sharp when played on first few frets. Once that's set right I'll take a closer look down at the saddle and bridge.

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by Mirosh

Thanks, Yamaha Guy, for those responses.

I am deepening the FG800's nut at string #2 - it's a little high, and that string goes a bit sharp when played on first few frets. Once that's set right I'll take a closer look down at the saddle and bridge.

No problem. Good luck with it. For what it's worth, I've probably screwed up 2 or 3 nuts by cutting them too deep. Tusq replacements are about $12, or super glue and baking soda work wonders. Make sure your truss rod (neck relief) adjustment is good before going too crazy with filing the nut slots.

[Nick84]

The nuts on both my Yammies needed a fair amount of work from new.

There’s a really tempting offer on an FG3 red label at the moment but I’ve zero experience with them as they are still relatively new

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by Nick84

The nuts on both my Yammies needed a fair amount of work from new.

There’s a really tempting offer on an FG3 red label at the moment but I’ve zero experience with them as they are still relatively new

That's been my experience with all mine as well.

The FGX5 is terrific. I can't imagine the FG3 being that much less of an instrument. If you don't mind the satin finish, I'd say go for it if it's that good a deal.

[Nick84]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

That's been my experience with all mine as well.

The FGX5 is terrific. I can't imagine the FG3 being that much less of an instrument. If you don't mind the satin finish, I'd say go for it if it's that good a deal.

I like the look of the finish on the new FG’s and don’t mind doing the work on the nut. My two Chinese made Yamaha’s are really great instruments. I’m tempted to pull the trigger I’ve just asked for some more detailed photographs from the retailer.

[Alan Carruth]

The 'term of art' that I learned for making slots in the top of the bridge behind the saddle is 'ramping'.

You must have had a very low break angle indeed to have those problems. The experiments I've done on that suggest that once you get enough break angle the strings will maintain good contact with the saddle top, and transfer all of the energy of vibration to the top. It's hard to say exactly what's 'enough', but it's most likely somewhere in the range of 12-15 degrees. Once you have enough more break angle does not transfer more sound to the top, but it can help keep the string from rolling or sliding across the saddle, which can cause problems

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

The 'term of art' that I learned for making slots in the top of the bridge behind the saddle is 'ramping'.

You must have had a very low break angle indeed to have those problems. The experiments I've done on that suggest that once you get enough break angle the strings will maintain good contact with the saddle top, and transfer all of the energy of vibration to the top. It's hard to say exactly what's 'enough', but it's most likely somewhere in the range of 12-15 degrees. Once you have enough more break angle does not transfer more sound to the top, but it can help keep the string from rolling or sliding across the saddle, which can cause problems

Ramping. I knew it started with an R. Thanks for the info.

[bls82261]

Originally Posted by Nick84

The nuts on both my Yammies needed a fair amount of work from new.

There’s a really tempting offer on an FG3 red label at the moment but I’ve zero experience with them as they are still relatively new

Who is offering the tempting deal?

[Nick84]

Originally Posted by bls82261

Who is offering the tempting deal?

It’s over in the UK gak.co.uk have them at 550 down from 799