#16
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
When you say processing as MS in the DAW with an XY setup. Im not completely understanding. 1. record both both signals as 1 stereo track 2. duplicate the signal twice, total of 3. pan 1 track left. pan 1 track right (put one side out of phase) leave one track center as is Is this right or am I completely missing the boat. btw I ended up ordering a pair of rode m5 mics, i hope it doesnt dissappoint. seemed like a good deal thanks Last edited by littlewing6283; 11-22-2014 at 10:13 AM. Reason: update |
#18
|
|||||
|
|||||
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi Last edited by ChuckS; 11-22-2014 at 12:31 PM. |
#19
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
If you do record in MS, use a figure 8 mic and a cardioid mic. You might like the results, and you can adjust the width of the stereo field post recording. Personally, I dont' feel it is the best for guitar because the guitar is not a physically wide source (like an orchestra) and unless you place the mics very close to the guitar much of the guitar's direct sound is in the null of the figure 8 mic; thus the figure 8 mainly picks up reflections.
__________________
Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
My experience is that a 12x12 room with an average 7-8 ft ceiling is a real problem for recording acoustics. Significant treatment will be required primarily on the bass traps. It is doable and not necessarily that expensive. However a good approach if you can afford it is to use a real time analyzer during the treatment process. I have a Rane RA 30 RTA Real Time Analyzer with reference mic. However if you have a computer / audio interface, there is cheap software that does the same thing. You can set up using your mics, although a mic designed for this has a very flat response. It is best if you can generate pink noise at the position your guitar would be at and treat the room until the spectrum is flat. Works best with two people, but not required. Then you can adjust to taste from flat by modifying the room treatment. Time consuming process with trial and error but without the spectrum analyzer and pink noise it is a crap shoot. Once dialed in, your recordings will be balanced and switching mics won't have an overwhelming negative impact that mic position can't correct.
__________________
Greg My Acoustics 1971 Martin D28 1973 Guild D50 2014 Taylor 814ce Ltd Coco 2015 Taylor GS Mini Hog 2018 Ibanez Artwood AC240 (Nashville string setup) Last edited by coconuts; 11-22-2014 at 01:34 PM. Reason: wrong model number |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Room treatment is next on my to do list.geez I could have bought that d28 I've been gassing for hahhaa. This has been a pretty fun. I gotta do a lot I'd research on treatment
|
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Maybe the d28 should top your list. Used ugly carpets can be acquired to treat a room!!! I would rather have quality instruments than a treated room. But once you enter this black hole of recording, the costs skyrocket rather quickly. It won't be long before you want recordings as good as if done in a top studio...and they don't scrimp on what it takes to get their sound.
__________________
Greg My Acoustics 1971 Martin D28 1973 Guild D50 2014 Taylor 814ce Ltd Coco 2015 Taylor GS Mini Hog 2018 Ibanez Artwood AC240 (Nashville string setup) |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
#24
|
|||
|
|||
RE: Treatment - A Place To Start, Littlewing
Aloha Littlewing,
Adequate Room Treatment is ABSOLUTELY critical if you're serious about home recording. It makes a larger difference to the quality of your recordings than the gear itself. It will save you lotsa money in fruitless gear upgrades & much time as you learn how to record your D-28 - when you get it, Ha! (BTW, larger guitars like dreadnaughts are more difficult to record & also to amplify live than smaller bodied instruments - just sayin,) So make Room Treatment a TOP priority, Littlewing, OK? Here's some useful info to get you started on your "room treatment research," some of which is re-printed from an earlier post: First, here's the room treatment bible from Ethan Winer - everything you need to know: http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html Here are a coupla helpful videos from Fran Guidry for building & understanding the need for DIY broadband absorbers. http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/ http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/ Another good place for lotsa studio building inspiration is found at this Gearslutz site: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/ First, put an SPF meter (Radio Shack has several brands) on your recording space to see where (freq's) the treatment needs to be emphasized. Make 2-9 broadband absorbers (place 2 behind the mic, 2 behind you, 2 on each side, & 1 above you). You'll be able to control those nasty early room reflections & have the potential to achieve clear, balanced acoustic recordings earlier in the home recording game. Hint: Don't frame out the absorbers. The hard surfaces are counter-productive. You'll also be able to experiment more using treatment with important things like mic placement (like the aforementioned Mid-Side or M-S pattern), something that an untreated space will never allow. See why treatment is so important? How to Make Broadband Absorbers - I made 22 broadband absorber panels using Fran's video as a rough guide. Relatively Cheap, portable, & storable, my absorbers have worked for me in several studio & location live recording settings for most of a decade now. All the materials & tools ya need are at Walmart. White burlap is a nice looking covering choice & very durable. Making your own can save you thousand$ over pre-made gobos. Note: Use Owens-Corning OC 703 rigid fiberglass to make your broadband absorbers (rigid side facing the music source). They come 6-12 in a box. Most acoustic material suppliers carry or have access to this very common (in the USA) insulation material. (Not available at Walmart or similar). Buy the 2"x2'x4' panels & double them up into 4"x2'x4'. Use Loctite #200 or 300 spray adhesive (best I've used) to join them & also for the flat surfaces when putting on the covering (as I said, white burlap from Walmart is nice looking, durable & works). Covering is necessary to prevent minute fiberglass fibers from suspending in the air around you - health concerns - so it's a must. Use hot-melt glue in a high temp. gun (under $10 @ Walmart) to secure the panel corners & the main material joint across the back of each panel. It only took me a weekend in my spare time to make my first nine absorbers. I added more as needed. I store them out of the way when I need the room for some other purpose. My panels have held up extremely well (no glue joint failures) for almost 10 years now & make all the difference in separating & defining the frequencies, avoiding mid-range mush, squashing room vibration if a bass is involved & producing sharp, clear-sounding, quiet & natural acoustic recordings w/ no room reflections. You can vary the space between the absorbers in different recording settings for whatever sonic effect you desire. I consider them to be my most essential recording gear. Hint 2: If your space has a carpeted floor where you track, then use a portable 1/4" plywood sheet over it where you sit/stand & play. I've found that a wooden floor works best with the absorbers. It's a balance of hard-soft that is the goal. Ya don't want all of the sound deadened in most rooms. Portable absorbers allow you to "tune" your space. Good Luck, Littewing, in your home recording odyssey. May it be all you hope it will be. Take your time. Build on what works (your ears will tell ya). Experiment A LOT, especially w/ mic placement & combo's once your treatment is in place. alohachris PS: It makes no difference if your recording gear is a simple, all-in-one recorder like a Zoom H4n or something more substantial. You need adequate room treatment (no soft foam, rugs or egg cartons) to achieve the results you're seeking, Littlewing. BTW, Jimi's 'Little Wing' has been one of my most requested songs to play at my gigs the last 45 years or so. Love that song! Must have played it 5000 times, Ha! alohachris- Last edited by alohachris; 11-22-2014 at 07:49 PM. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
I AGREE that an m/s decoder is NOT the same as an m/s recording from the source.
I am saying that converting to m/s, regardless of source, provides a lot of advantages in the mix. I find it much easier to get a richer and more satisfying sound when I can apply EQ and effects to the mid and sides separately. I like having direct control over the size of the stereo image that is provided by m/s processing. I'm not sure what anyone would either agree or disagree about this point. |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
If you want to try a spaced pair for a wider image, please make sure to measure the distance between the mics and source accordingly to avoid phasing issues. I find a spaced pair approach wonderful for things like a guitar cabinet, room mics for drums, even an orchestra, choir or band. For solo acoustic guitar a spaced pair is not my preference. As I've said before, there's no exclusively right or wrong answer, and experimentation is always a good thing. Chuck has apparently had good results with a spaced pair and that's wonderful. In a home recording setting I've never been satisfied with a spaced pair result on acoustic guitar. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
any luck finding this stuff at home depot ? Im off for the next couple of days so ill have some time on my hands. anyone record in a space where they hang guitars. I have a music room and due to space and GAS i cant keep everything in a case. I have a couple guitars hung will this be a problem ? Quote:
I did the MS recording per your video and actually really enjoyed the results |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
also alohachris
do you have any sources for the fiberglass board. seems like its not available at home depot. Id like to make a couple of these. |
#29
|
||||
|
||||
Hello,
Here is one source I worked with....there are others. I opted for the "Eco-core" and have been pleased with the results. The do the job, you don't have issues with fibers (Corning 703) and they are recyclable. Anyway, whatever works for you purposes. http://www.acoustimac.com/acoustic-i...ic-insulation/
__________________
1993 Bourgeois JOM 1967 Martin D12-20 2007 Vines Artisan 2014 Doerr Legacy 2013 Bamburg FSC- 2002 Flammang 000 12 fret 2000 McCollum Grand Auditorium ______________________________ Soundcloud Spotify Mike McKee/Fred Bartlett Spotify playlist |
#30
|
||||
|
||||
After checking out the specs I decided to use Roxul Rockboard 80 instead of the Owens Corning 703. A local lumber yard can order it in for me so I won't have the shipping charges that some on the online sellers add on. I didn't have luck at Home Depot, Menards, etc. The place I found primarily sells lumber, windows, insulation, etc to builders (not a big box hardware store).
__________________
Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi Last edited by ChuckS; 11-23-2014 at 12:50 PM. |