#1
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Calling all Zoom H2n experts.
Howdy,
Well their sure is a lot of samples and reviews of this great little unit (I just bought one). I've also updated to the latest firmware. But there seems to be a shortage of insight as to how to maximize the end result with tips or tricks using this unit. I only picked it up later yesterday so I have only had a few goes with it. I've set it at 48/ 24 bit for quality In 4ch and 96 / 24 for stereo. I had a go with 4ch XY primary and Also MS as primary mikes. Then 2ch XY and MS. The results are very promising but getting best sound for guitar and vox simultaneously will take some practice and that's my primary goal, along with using for video and also recording my guitar during live gigs. I'm thinking auto gain should not be used (which I had used) so not 100% sure. I'd love some advice what positioning techniques people have had greatest success with along with what combination of mikes used with the correlating settings. Do people use the low cut and or compression? So far I'm sort of setting it up as if I was using traditional mikes. Although I tried a few less orthodox ways and it sounded okay. So maybe there's some tricks with this mic. I'm most excited about the MS usage although it looks like many people use the XY in the videos I've seen and not many using MS. Even trying to figure out the optimal memory for this unit in 2017 seems to elude me. Some of the latest and fastest cards I've been told will be slower then some of the past cards since the H2n won't support the newer classes. So what is the fastest available card available? Transferring 1Gb of recordings yesterday took a few minutes from the H2n to my Mac. Transferring in my Mac was instant. The only info I can find is like from 2011-2012. Advice, thoughts, insight? Last edited by Mischief; 04-04-2017 at 06:32 AM. |
#2
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I'm no expert but I have a few suggestions.
1) Generally I sing louder than my guitar "speaks" and that's generally how I like to mix, so about equidistant between your guitar and mouth sounds best... maybe the length of your arm out. 2) Don't use auto-gain. It does weird things. 3) Experiment with different rooms. This is a huge factor. 4) Apply effects in your DAW and not your recorder.
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#3
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Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi Slack Key in California - www.kaleponi.com My YouTube clips The Homebrewed Music Blog |
#4
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Calling all Zoom H2n experts.
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The idea being in video I could provide playback of the guitar with some stereo and acoustic mic elements. Mix that with direct recording from the desk and use onboard camera mic and iPhone recordings for room sense and ambiance. Otherwise I could just use the mic to capture sound out front and sync that. It's sure got to beat my onboard camera mic. I'm still toying with ideas of how to improve my live recordings for video. Quote:
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Thanks for the insight. TBH when I first became interested in MS I bought a very nice ribbon and LDC mikes to do the job. But I have not played with it much and I have such a small space to work in. Likely I'll use that set up when doing my audio only recording and the zoom seems like it will be a great fit for video getting ideas down and likely developing my tracking and recording skills. I'm not sure how to deal with the zoom MS file. I have it set to RAW and hopefully I find out my Aura pro can deal with MS. I have not looked that far into it yet. Also I plan to use a Sandisk Ultra 16GB SDHC card class 10 UH-1. Hopefully that's a good enough budget friendly card that'll be fast for transfer. Thanks for all the advice. |
#5
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48kHz is more than good enough. You won't hear a difference, unless you are a bat.
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#6
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Well I'm embarrassed to say I can't find the article that addressed the file format issue vs signal to noise ratio. Using 24 bit can't hurt, although you'd need to convert to burn an audio CD for instance.
High sample rates - sorry, I've never been convinced that there's an audible difference due to sample rates. The debate has raged forever but actual samples that demonstrate an audible difference are something I've ever found. There was once a time when sample rate conversion was a problem so the rule was to record 48 khz for video, but every audio and video tool I'm using these days can deal with whatever sample rate I feed into them. So I generally record 44.1/16. The solution I found that reduced the self-noise when using MS was to reduce the level of the side mic(s). Of course, that gets closer to mono, and in fact I had to go all the way to mono - no side mic at all - bring the self-noise to the same level as an XY recording. You should do your own tests, though. Noise is a complicated issue, depends on source material, recording environment, playback level, and more. Quote:
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Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi Slack Key in California - www.kaleponi.com My YouTube clips The Homebrewed Music Blog |
#7
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Oh thanks for that Fran
I didn't realize I need to keep that other memory card around. Yes my idea for recording would be doing solo although there is monitors so maybe that won't work so well. As far as the sample rate debate. What is the con of recoding higher sample rates besides using more memory? If there's no real noticeable improvement but it is just as easy to work with them why not just use it? I may have to do some research in that. I think for my first time recording live I may just play it safe and record the room and sync with the camera. Possibly record a multitrack with an interface and laptop then play with mixing it all. I'm learning lots here. I do know I need some sort of attenuation to use this recorder to record from the desk. Seems like a waste of a standalone unit though to use it for that. Is there a 4 channel battery operated recorder that can take hi Z, line and mic inputs? |
#8
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My question would be, if there's no audible difference what's the benefit? Quote:
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Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi Slack Key in California - www.kaleponi.com My YouTube clips The Homebrewed Music Blog |
#9
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Also understand "no real noticeable difference " is not actually an established fact . It is a subjective anecdotal statement . There are in fact numbers of very qualified engineers who's anecdotal experience causes them to record and mix at 24 -96k. The reality is there are far far too many variables at play to make any kind of categorical statements either pro or con. Best to try it for yourself, on your gear, in your room, with your ears .......... For your research effort and as general interest, here is an interesting read on this subject. http://www.keyboardmag.com/how-to/12...at-96khz/48364
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 Last edited by KevWind; 04-06-2017 at 08:57 AM. |
#10
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I usually record at 24/88,200 although 16/44,100 is probably fine (and the file sizes are a lot smaller), especially if you are careful about overs and you do not manipulate post recording very much (reverb, compression, equalization, etc.) with less than very good software. I would not record at 48,000 if you are going to end up reducing to 44,100 post recording anyway (more rounding errors in that process).
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#11
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Calling all Zoom H2n experts.
Okay now what I'm trying to figure out is how I can
1. Import a file from the zoom into my iPad. I have tried recording direct using it as an interface but it only does the file in single track stereo. So I would rather record separate then import. 2. How do I get a MS file I can post manipulate? I have it set to RAW but when I import it (so far I've only imported to computer) I just get a single stereo track. I want separate control of my M and S mic. I know there's the VST plug in but seems it only works with Cubass and I want to use my Auria pro or GB on my iPad. I'm trying to get a work flow that is all on my iPad. My plan is; Record AV separate, mix audio then sync to video and releasing to YouTube all via my iPad. I have an apple powered camera kit for the iPad already. Any thoughts? |
#12
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 |
#13
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It's normal to process MS by manipulating a stereo file with a plugin. The use of separate tracks is only needed if you're doing a "manual" mid-side manipulation by inverting and summing tracks. A plugin will handle this for you while (hopefully) still allowing any adjustment you want to make. Fran
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#14
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Calling all Zoom H2n experts.
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Okay thanks for this. I checked for a plug in before but didn't find anything regarding Auria pro or GB specifically. I do know that Auria can handle third party plugins, so I'll try that. I've downloaded Shure motive but that only handles prerecorded. So I also got another free app I'll see if it works. I would still like to manually work with the signal if the plugins don't work well on the iPad. So if I understand correctly the RAW file and or stereo track of a MS can be converted into 2 mono tracks, is that all I need to manually decode and manipulate the Side track? I thought it would just separate them into mono left and right and not strip it back to mono mid and side? I also still have to figure out how to get a prerecorded wav raw file [or MS stereo] from my H2n into my iPad (ideally without going through a computer as that defeats the purpose). The last question I'm wondering is since the H2n actually uses two back to back capsules for the figure eight pattern does it get treated differently then a single figure eight recording? Is there a different workflow for dealing with that signal vs a regular eight (assuming I'm not using a plug in)? Last edited by Mischief; 04-07-2017 at 07:03 PM. |
#15
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Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi Slack Key in California - www.kaleponi.com My YouTube clips The Homebrewed Music Blog |