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  #1  
Old 04-01-2017, 01:26 AM
Authentic Authentic is offline
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Default Good acoustic lead for under say $50?

Hey guys, I'm playing a gig on Friday, the venue (a cafe with capacity of about 50 or so people, spaces quite wide open) says they will provide the amplification, all I need to do is bring an electric-acoustic guitar and a guitar lead.

I currently don't have a guitar lead, and wouldn't know the different brands or models. My guitar is an OM and has a K&K in it. I don't want to walk into a store and just buy whatever the store clerk says I should buy (that's how I ended up overpaying for not-value-for-money beginner guitars when I first started out)... So given my approximate budget, what would you guys recommend (specific brand + model number/designation)?

Thanks!

Last edited by Authentic; 04-01-2017 at 01:54 AM.
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2017, 01:41 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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if you have onboard preamp capacitance does not count... If you don't... It depends on the mixer input impedance... K&k are known to need 1mohm input preamp. I think you probably should take a preamp with a di out with you.

For the lead, this website is intructive but apply to magnetic pickups:

http://www.ovnilab.com/articles/cablechoice.shtml
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2017, 05:31 AM
pipedwho pipedwho is offline
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K&K have pretty big piezo elements and a little cable capacitance will reduce the level a little, but it's fairly even without too much affect on the high end of the spectrum. Piezo's are capacitive and bigger elements like the K&K aren't affected in the same way as magnetic coil pickups are - this applies to capacitive and resistive loads.

Some examples that I have:

Off the shelf, the diMarzio cloth covered leads are great with their Switchcraft jacks. I use a 12 footer. I like to keep the lead short, so the 18 footer is out. If I need longer range, I go wireless.

Lava has some good cable with lower capacitance and uses the G&H connectors. You can order anything custom from them. I have a tweed ELC with Neutrik silent jacks that I got from them, and some PVC ELC cable with G&H jacks. They make quality leads.

Also designacable.com in the UK do great leads with Neutrik jacks and Van Damme cable. These guys made me a great dual pickup lead with the Onyx twin core cable. I also had some wireless leads made up.

I also make my own leads with Neutrik jacks and Mogami or Canare cable. I've made two guitar leads with right angle jacks that I leave hanging on my amps. I make all my mic leads with Mogami star quad and Neutrik NXX connectors. Neutrik has little colourful end caps that make distinguishing different leads at the desk a breeze. I've made up black mic leads with just about every colour end cap.
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Old 04-01-2017, 07:02 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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So as stated the k&k really could use a preamp.
It is best to go out of the pre with an xlr (mic cord) cord.
To the board.you will need also an instrument cable
To go from the guitar to the preamp.
If you are not going to use a pre than just the
1/4 inch cable from guitar to mixer.it may sound thin.
Try to keep that ad short as possible.
Either case i use "Monster cable" brand.of cords.
Guarenteed for life.i have brought back 3 monster
Cables in 20 years and never had an issue getting
A replacement from my local shop.
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2017, 10:47 PM
Lapo Lapo is offline
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The new Silktone cable hands down. Theres a guy with alot of experience with high end cables who feels it has even more clarity than the Evidence Lyric and is as clear as the Zaolla$$$ cables without the somewhat brash sound. 40$, moneyback guarantee and lifetime warranty. This cable will do the blanket off your amp affect compared to most moderately ppriced cables.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:31 AM
Mandobart Mandobart is offline
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IMO, as a former electronics tech and current musician with more than a few years experience playing AE instruments in a variety of bar/club/medium size outdoor venues plugged into a wide variety of amps and PA's - your instrument cord does not make any audible difference. I'm sure there will be disagreements and anecdotal stories/testimonials, but if you're playing a medium sized club through an appropriately sized system you absolutely do not need to waste your money on anything like Monster Cable. IF you are going to run a cord say 50 feet or longer and there will be high power amplifiers and wireless systems causing RF interference then it MIGHT matter. IF you are hitting the road and intend to put some rough use on your gear you'll need high quality cords and knowledge how to repair bad connections. For the gig you describe you can get any instrument cable and it won't matter.

If you have an on-board (or external) preamp make sure you have a fresh battery. If you have no preamp (internal or external) find out exactly what you'll be plugging into. All currently made acoustic amps are designed for an input from piezo pickups. Some PA's have one or two high impedance (HI Z) channels. If you don't know what you're plugging into you should have a preamp or DI. If the place you're playing frequently has acoustic players they should have this. If not you probably know someone you can borrow from.

Are you also singing? Will they provide a mic, cable and stand? I always bring along a trusty SM58 for vocals and an SM57 for instruments if my pickup, preamp, or spare preamp die.

Last edited by Mandobart; 04-27-2017 at 06:42 AM.
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2017, 06:59 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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I'm with Mando here - it doesn't matter. Monster cables are nothing great, but have a lifetime replacement guarantee. A cheap cable won't last you as long - more often than not these days the wires in the cable get damaged (from being stepped on, coiled, etc) and then can get noisy. Better cables are thicker (but less flexible) and more durable. The braided jacket kind look good and are durable. Bring your guitar with you to the store and make sure both plugs fit into your guitar - with a 'snap' you can feel. I've come across cables with plugs a little out of spec that don't quite fit into the jacks, or don't lock in - and some of these were not cheap cables, but sometimes this can be the jacks that are off a little.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:59 AM
pipedwho pipedwho is offline
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Too many people conflate the effect of the cable on an electric guitar with passive magnetic pickups to every other type of instrument connection. Same applies for the properties of unrelated types of interconnects (RF, high power, high tension, speaker, digital, etc) with each other.

All those wondrous properties of high end cabling seem to 'market' cable benefits that only apply to interconnects when used for completely unrelated purposes. eg. skin effect, current handling, solid cores, silver vs copper, balanced lines for unbalanced sources, etc.

For simple AE guitar interconnects that have a piezo pickup, the primary concern is the physical quality of the cable and connectors. Cable capacitance can be an issue for electric guitars with single coils (which affects the pickup's resonant frequency is very audible ways - especially single coils), and for some piezo pickups in AE guitars (by slightly reducing the overall output level of the piezo, and in same cases attenuating some of the piezo's high (presence) frequency response). Every other property is marketing fluff unless you're using it for high frequency, high power RF transmission lines of enormous length.

The K&K elements are large and aren't affected tonally by cable capacitance until it goes way up (ie. for really long 50'+ length leads made up of high capacitance per foot cable). They do drop in level slightly, but that is easily compensated for by turning up the volume.

As Cuki said above, if there is a preamp in the guitar, cable capacitance doesn't make any audible difference until you're talking unrealistically enormous lengths (500+ feet).

I hate it when people buy 'cheap' cables that end up crackling and popping as the cables get stressed over time from relatively tame usage, pick up excessive noise, or have poorly sized plug dimensions that either don't properly contact the jacks at either end (or are so big that they bend some jack contacts out of shape so the jacks no longer work reliably with correctly sized connectors). You see the player move around and their signal suddenly disappears, or a loud pop/crackling comes through the system depending on which way the wind is blowing. Or, "where's that hum/buzz coming from?" Life is too short to put up with that kind annoyance that is so easily avoided.

I always recommend buying instrument cables that are made by name brands with good reputations for quality manufacture using quality raw cabling and connectors.

You don't have to pay a lot of money for decent cable from reputable sources.

I avoid cables that are sold (usually at crazy prices) solely based on marketing fluff with complete disregard for engineering concepts and the laws of physics. I also avoid overly stiff or heavy cables that put unnecessary strain on the connectors at either end.
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:43 PM
Lapo Lapo is offline
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One thing to keep in mind is tgat Tommy Embanuel, with his active Maton pickup sysrem, still heard a difference with better cables,hence him now endorsing the Laboga cables. In Tommy's words:


“I use David Laboga cables because when I first tried them out I heard
a big difference in clarity and in the openness of my sound."
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2017, 03:32 PM
Tone Gopher Tone Gopher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
Hey guys, I'm playing a gig on Friday, the venue (a cafe with capacity of about 50 or so people, spaces quite wide open) says they will provide the amplification, all I need to do is bring an electric-acoustic guitar and a guitar lead.
Call them up and ask whether they have any microphones.
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Old 04-27-2017, 03:46 PM
Paleolith54 Paleolith54 is offline
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I agree that it makes no practical difference in a gigging environment. None.

The fact that Tommy Emmanuel hears a difference in a certain cable, or that Eric Johnson can distinguish between different types of batteries, has no tangible effect on me or anything I'm ever likely to do on a stage. I don't deny (who am I to tell someone they don't hear what they say they hear?), I just don't think it matters to people like us.

A decent cable (say one of the Fenders with the white tips, just check Sweetwater or similar) will serve you well. Honestly, the pick you choose will probably affect your sound more than the cable.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:04 PM
Stratcat77 Stratcat77 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
I agree that it makes no practical difference in a gigging environment. None.

The fact that Tommy Emmanuel hears a difference in a certain cable, or that Eric Johnson can distinguish between different types of batteries, has no tangible effect on me or anything I'm ever likely to do on a stage. I don't deny (who am I to tell someone they don't hear what they say they hear?), I just don't think it matters to people like us.

A decent cable (say one of the Fenders with the white tips, just check Sweetwater or similar) will serve you well. Honestly, the pick you choose will probably affect your sound more than the cable.
Amen! I challenge anyone to actually hear a difference (assuming they are decent quality) in a cable in a live setting..

Now, picks... I'm a believer. They can really effect your sound.
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  #13  
Old 04-27-2017, 04:16 PM
pipedwho pipedwho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapo View Post
One thing to keep in mind is tgat Tommy Embanuel, with his active Maton pickup sysrem, still heard a difference with better cables,hence him now endorsing the Laboga cables. In Tommy's words:


“I use David Laboga cables because when I first tried them out I heard
a big difference in clarity and in the openness of my sound."
As much as I love Tommy and his skills, that statement taken at face value flies in the face of everything to do with transmission line theory.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he wasn't just paid to say that. Maybe someone set up the system either starting with a bad cable, changed something else during the test, or there was something seriously wrong to begin with. It's also possible multiple variables changed at the same time he started using the new cable. Or maybe it was placebo - those David Laboga cables are very well made and look great, so there is already an expectation of 'high quality'.

After decades of working as an electronics engineer in the telecommunications field, I've performed measurements on much much longer cables and across pretty much every type of optical, wave guide, free space, and electrical transmission lines from DC to baseband audio to millimetre wave radar. There is nothing a simple 20 foot cable can do that could audibly affect the sound between a typical guitar preamp and an amp input unless it (or the cable it replaced) was defective.

I've seen experienced engineers confounded by 'hidden' variables until they worked out that something was happening elsewhere in the system, sometimes coincidentally and sometimes causal. I've even myself been impacted by confirmation bias and placebo in audio reproduction systems and after double blind testing found that what I thought I was hearing was greatly affected by what I expected or could see. (We did this a lot when working with lossy audio compression schemes to determine subjective codec quality at various rates, especially when tweaking algorithms to improve performance.)

That being said, those David Laboga cables look like excellent high quality cable. Not cheap though, but built like a tank and they look pretty. IMO, on par quality-wise with cables made with Neutrik/Amphenol plugs and Sommer/Mogami/Canare bulk cable, but at 5 times the price.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:46 PM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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Fender leads with white tips are good. But so are most decent makes!


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Old 04-27-2017, 05:12 PM
pipedwho pipedwho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
(who am I to tell someone they don't hear what they say they hear?), I just don't think it matters to people like us.
It only matters in the sense that other people are confused/swayed by these statements and end up paying a lot of money for someone else's placebo effect (assuming they aren't just making it up for marketing purposes). That being said, there is nothing wrong with loving a placebo. As I said earlier, life is short, and the warm fuzzy glow of total aural satisfaction is still a great thing, even if it is due to the placebo effect.

A related story. Back when we were moving from companded ISDN audio to compressed streams for long haul intercontinental voice traffic, we had to do all sorts of testing. Annoyingly, we even had to tell a certain 'higher up' gentleman that he wasn't able to hear what he thought he could hear. We had to take him to the lab and get him to agree to a double blind test before we could convince him otherwise, and even then he was still sceptical. It's hard getting decisions made when you keep getting blocked by a self confessed 'audiophile' that had a $50k stereo system in his home, and insisted that our custom designed audio codec lacked the 'presence' of a third party solution. An hour of double blind testing later, and he finally relented that he couldn't hear any difference at all.
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