Acoustic pedalboard, y cables, current and voltage

[LimePickle]

This is my first post, Ive used acousticguitarforum for years to cross reference info from other sources and educate myself as best as I can on all matters gear related and found it a wonderful forum for discussion, it's great! Ill try to be as brief as possible. Thanks in advance for any advice. I should note I live in Ireland so Thomann.de is my primary source for gear. Anyhoo, onwards and upwards..

I have set up an acoustic pedalboard. My gear is a...
H&D GTR w/ iBeam active into
Polytune 2 tuner (50mA) into
LR Baggs Para DI into
Hall of Fame reverb (90mA) into
Pigtronix Infinity Looper (200mA)

I then go into a Roland Ac-33 acoustic amp, with an SM58 going thru the second I/P of my looper.

I'm using a Harley Benton Powerplant PSU (8 x 9V - 500mA total) - this powers the tuner and reverb. I have a 9V battery powering the ParaDI. At the minute I'm using the supplied pigtronix power supply but would like to change this.

The looper requires 18V and I have no y cable in series to power it.
Do you know where I can find such a y cable or what the definition of one is in order to search for it better? Note it is in series, as one in parallel only serves to double current as opposed to voltage. Also, would the current be insufficient even if I did?
I am aware of the 50 + 90 + 200 = 340mA x 2 = 680 calculation. Would I get away with it with 500mA on the PSU?
Also, I have since discovered they are not isolated outputs, but there is a junior version (with less outputs, not important for me) which are isolated. Do you think I should I send it back to be replaced by this? (I only had it delivered today).

Also, I don't have the trs y cable required to insert the reverb into the FX loop of the Para DI. Would this make a difference to my minimal pedal set-up?

Here are some links to further explain myself.

Powerplant, the one I currently have...
https://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton_powerplant.htm
Note, no y cable supplied.

Powerplant junior - the one I think I might replace mine with...
https://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_ben...ant_junior.htm
Would the y cable that comes supplied with this be ok for my Looper? or is it only for current? (I dont know whether its in parallel or series)

I have been researching all this to the best of my ability but have hit a brick wall on these points. Any replies and advice greatly appreciated. I'd better note that i posted this to gearslutz earlier as well, its a great forum but I havent yet had any replies and thought it might be better suited here. Cheers!!

[James May]

You could use this supply
http://www.voodoolab.com/pedalpower_2.htm
You'd need to wire the two high current outputs 5 and 6 in series to get 18V at 250mA. Not sure where to buy such a cable, but it can be made fairly easily if you have basic soldering skills.
Hope this helps.

[LimePickle]

Thanks for the reply!

I can't afford the voodoo and am hoping to manage with one of the two PSU's I described as they're nice and cheap Most people seem to think there's no difference (besides isolation and current) between cheap and expensive PSU's, so as long as I'm within the current requirements I'm happy enough. The junior version has isolated outputs too.

I bought a soldering iron a few years ago with the intention of fixing my own cables and quickly discovered I don't have the most basic soldering skills at all. I have a chronic shake that somehow doesn't affect my playing too badly, but doesn't work for skills like soldering.'Wiring in series' - i dont even know what this means tbh. Does that mean attaching a y cable in series, or making my own cable?

I want to know what this y-cable that would double the voltage is and where I could get one. Also, does it double the current as well? And would my 500mA PSU handle these 3 pedals?

I'm then wondering should I use the FX loop of the ParaDI for the reverb?

Just using this post to furthur clarify my request. Also, hoping if anyone sees a glaring problem in my setup to scream it at me 'YOU IDIOT, DON'T DO X'

[YamahaGuy]

I use a Para DI and the fact that it runs off a 9v battery scared me that it may die at a moment's notice, so I use an ART tube DI in my setup which powers the Para DI with phantom power which posed two problems: 1) the tube pre takes its own AC power supply, and 2) I have to use XLR from the Para DI to the ART. I then go out of the tube pre with 1/4" TS.

As for the effects loop, I've used it, but found that running the effects after the DI is equally effective with no negative consequences.

[Neon Soul]

You are very confused about how current seems to work, and doubler cables. I'll try and help as best I can.

"Do you know where I can find such a y cable or what the definition of one is in order to search for it better? Note it is in series, as one in parallel only serves to double current as opposed to voltage. Also, would the current be insufficient even if I did?"

You're power supply is an unregulated 9v supply with 500mA. This means it is essentially like a 9v a battery that won't die. Doesn't matter how many outlets they put on it, they are all sharing from the same pool, which can only give 9v 500mA.

If you combine 2 plugs? You'll still get 9v 500mA.

Isolated outputs are different. They each act as independent power supplies, with their own Voltage and Current, so can be combined.

Luckily for you, One Spot makes a voltage doubler, with a transformer in it, for unregulated power supplies.

http://truetone.com/tvd/


"I am aware of the 50 + 90 + 200 = 340mA x 2 = 680 calculation. Would I get away with it with 500mA on the PSU?"

50 + 90 + 200 = 340mA is fine, there is no x2. Current is how much a pedal draws. Even if a current doubler cable did work with your power supply, it wouldn't double how much current the pedals draw.

Your 500mA supply should, in theory, be able to handle the 340mA draw of those 3 pedals.

However, digital pedals like the Polytune and Hall of Fame might not like sharing one power outlet with other pedals, and may become noisy.


"Also, I have since discovered they are not isolated outputs, but there is a junior version (with less outputs, not important for me) which are isolated. Do you think I should I send it back to be replaced by this? (I only had it delivered today)."

If you feel you're pedals are noisy, then yes, maybe isolated outputs would be better.

However, since each output on the Junior is 9v 120mA, you'd need to use a cable which doubled the current, and the voltage at the same time, which you can't do, so it wouldn't work with the Looper.

"I bought a soldering iron a few years ago with the intention of fixing my own cables and quickly discovered I don't have the most basic soldering skills at all. I have a chronic shake that somehow doesn't affect my playing too badly, but doesn't work for skills like soldering.'Wiring in series' - i dont even know what this means tbh. Does that mean attaching a y cable in series, or making my own cable?"

Step away from the soldering iron. If you don't understand electricity and voltages, don't go messing around and accidentally make something that might electrocute you.


That's it for now, let me know if you need anymore questions answered.

[LimePickle]

Yamahaguy -

I've no real need for another pre-amp. Sounds like a cool set-up you have though, do you just use the ParaDI for the eq section? Or just use the ART for the phantom? For recording I have a focusrite saffire for phantom, and at gigs, I'd hope to plug in to a desk. My main reason for getting the ParaDI was to clear up feedback issues associated with the Baggs iBeam Pickup, and for an eq section close to hand. I can see the worry associated with 9V batteries, but Ill be fine with them for messing around not plugged in to the PC.

Thanks for clarifying the FX loop's lack of influence as well.

Neon Soul -
Luckily for you, One Spot makes a voltage doubler, with a transformer in it, for unregulated power supplies.
From Truetone One Spot's website:
Able to handle up to 100mA of current, it can help you power just about any 18V or 24V pedal
Does this mean it's 100mA max going through, so it wouldn't work for the looper requiring 200mA?

If you feel you're pedals are noisy, then yes, maybe isolated outputs would be better.
I do feel it's noisier than before overall, but I was just going straight into the amp before and might have been spoiled for signal in the process. I'm adding all these pedals (except the looper) at once so maybe there's an expected increase in noise? I'm also running a mic through it as well so maybe I'm expecting a bit much from my amp as it's only 30w.

I'm planning on adding a Pigtronix echolution and a chorus pedal in the future so I'll probably have to invest in a superior PSU then, but that's a far off fantasy for now If I can somehow run the looper off my current PSU I'll be happy enough.

Step away from the soldering iron.
Haha, I'm well aware of my shortcomings here, I don't have a functional knowledge of electronics at all, just trying to learn enough to achieve my aims. I wouldn't go near anything without being confident about it.

Wow, what a comprehensive response! I was indeed very confused, but you have cleared up my knowledge gaps expertly. Immense thanks for your time, your soul is luminescent in my dark confusion!

[Neon Soul]

Able to handle up to 100mA of current, it can help you power just about any 18V or 24V pedal

Good catch, I didn't see that.

Yes, a pedal drawing more that 100mA though the transformer is probably more that it is rated to handle, so it may crap out. Wouldn't risk it.

They actually have this written at the bottom:

* The only 18V pedal we know of that the Voltage Doubler can’t power is the Pigtronix Infinity Looper, which requires it’s own power supply.

So I'm afraid it wouldn't work.

The only solution, I'm afraid, is to invest in a power supply that better fits your needs.

[LimePickle]

* The only 18V pedal we know of that the Voltage Doubler can’t power is the Pigtronix Infinity Looper, which requires it’s own power supply.
Good catch yourself, it was right beneath what I was reading and I didn't see it

I'll be fine with the pigtronix supply for now, it wasn't a big problem, just trying to get my head around it. I think I'll exchange for the powerplant junior if Thomann'll let me. I'll upgrade the PSU when I get more pedals.

Again, many thanks Neon Soul!! Problem solved.

[Neon Soul]

No problem.

Yeah, when in doubt with digital pedals, isolated power supplies are the way to go.

I myself was trying to power my 250mA 18v Headway preamp for a while, and in the end just opted for the Strymon Zuma, so I wouldn't have any headaches.

Doesn't feel very exciting investing that kind of money is something you don't even see/interact with when you are performing, but the reassurance that it's given me to not have to worry about power issues live had justified the value several times over.

[LimePickle]

Jeez, that Zuma's pretty powerful alright, hadn't come across that one.

Peace of mind in all things is pretty important. That's why I have to clear my head on these issues before moving forward as I know I'll only get muddled trying to solve any problems later on thinking it could be any of a multitude of things then.

[YamahaGuy]

I do use the Para DI for eq primarily and cutting feedback. The ART tube pre colors the sound somewhat and when I use the pedalboard with acoustics, I keep the gain settings pretty neutral. However, when I use me electric guitar through it, I turn the gain up to get that tube sound going direct to a pa. That way I get tube sound without a tube amp.

[LimePickle]

Ah, I can see the use of the ART now, that's really handy, and it's not too expensive either, 50 euro. Nice set-up! When I looked at it before I looked at the product page and assumed it was about 500 beans or something.

Too many options, too little a clue (for me)