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  #1  
Old 10-30-2014, 04:45 PM
theflink theflink is offline
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Default How big of a difference does a Pre-Amp make?

Finally getting a pick-up installed in my B-20 so I can start gigging again and it's gonna be a K&K Pure Mini pick-up. Now, I'm really wondering, since I've got the funds, and the luthier is also a Pre-Amp dealer....

How big of a difference does a Pre-Amp make? Obviously I won't be using it at home, since I won't play plugged in, but this is strictly for gigs. I'm not sure if I'll be able to take one for a spin since there are no other dealers anywhere near me and I have no idea if the luthier would allow me to test one or even have a set up for me to do it on.. I want the best possible sound from my acoustic and I've been looking at something like the the K&K Pure Preamps but I have no idea what difference it makes from just plugging the guitar into the PA... See, I'm not a seasoned gigger. Been playing in my bedroom for the past 3 years. I've got 3 gigs under my belt and all the equipment (And possibly a Pre-amp) has already been at place when I got the playing part. Just had to plug the jack into the guitar..

What difference does a Pre-amp make, and what are some of the great ones along the priceline of a K&K Pure XLR pre-amp (or a bit over)?

Thanks in advance :-)
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:00 PM
good_hillbilly good_hillbilly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflink View Post
Finally getting a pick-up installed in my B-20 so I can start gigging again and it's gonna be a K&K Pure Mini pick-up. Now, I'm really wondering, since I've got the funds, and the luthier is also a Pre-Amp dealer....

How big of a difference does a Pre-Amp make? Obviously I won't be using it at home, since I won't play plugged in, but this is strictly for gigs. I'm not sure if I'll be able to take one for a spin since there are no other dealers anywhere near me and I have no idea if the luthier would allow me to test one or even have a set up for me to do it on.. I want the best possible sound from my acoustic and I've been looking at something like the the K&K Pure Preamps but I have no idea what difference it makes from just plugging the guitar into the PA... See, I'm not a seasoned gigger. Been playing in my bedroom for the past 3 years. I've got 3 gigs under my belt and all the equipment (And possibly a Pre-amp) has already been at place when I got the playing part. Just had to plug the jack into the guitar..

What difference does a Pre-amp make, and what are some of the great ones along the priceline of a K&K Pure XLR pre-amp (or a bit over)?

Thanks in advance :-)


It can make a big difference or it might hardly matter at all. For example if you use an amp you don't need one.

Some PAs, even if you get the EQ right, just sound very thin without a preamp. Impedance mismatch or something. Moreoever, if you get one with a notch filter (for the love of God, do!), it can help immensely if you have a feedback problem.

The box I use is a Baggs Venue, but only because I got it cheap -- there are many many others that work equally well.

I used to think that it was better to just have a preamp in the guitar, but even the very basic external systems seem to work a lot better and of course it's far easier to replace the battery.
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:02 PM
Kip Carter Kip Carter is offline
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Originally Posted by good_hillbilly View Post
It can make a big difference or it might hardly matter at all. For example if you use an amp you don't need one.

Some PAs, even if you get the EQ right, just sound very thin without a preamp. Impedance mismatch or something. Moreoever, if you get one with a notch filter (for the love of God, do!), it can help immensely if you have a feedback problem.

The box I use is a Baggs Venue, but only because I got it cheap -- there are many many others that work equally well.

I used to think that it was better to just have a preamp in the guitar, but even the very basic external systems seem to work a lot better and of course it's far easier to replace the battery.
Venue is by far superior to most of the preamps out there. I swear by mine.
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:05 PM
Yamaha Man Yamaha Man is offline
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I just did a practice session with my Venue...sounds awesome !!
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  #5  
Old 10-30-2014, 05:07 PM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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So - let me caveat this with saying two of my guitars sport JJB pickups - so they are not K&K but built the same. Their tonal characteristics may be somewhat different.

My JJB's sound fine straight through a PA. I bought a cheap Behringer foot pedal preamp and it improves and smooths out the signal a LOT.

Behringer v-tone

Removes harshness and lets you tweak the tone a great deal.

For 30 bucks this tool is hard to beat IMHO. I'm sure their are better preamps and many will argue for the K&K preamp but the specs on this are similar in many ways and it actually has more functions.

So yeah - I think a preamp is a good investment. I'm happy with what I got on a very limited budget.

Hope this is helpful.

Roy
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2014, 05:20 PM
theflink theflink is offline
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The L.R. Baggs Venue costs around twice the Pure XLR :/
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:22 PM
akafloyd akafloyd is offline
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It depends on why you need it. I have had good sound using a passive DI box straight to the board with a competent sound person. If you don't need to control everything like your EQ, phase issues, ground loop hum, etc. then that may be all you need. If you need to control those things then something like the Venue or the ParaDI, both by L.R. Baggs, may be what you need. There are quite a few available by Fishman, Radial, Baggs, and others and they all have a variety of features and none of them has all the features in one box, unfortunately. Will you have an amp on stage as a monitor? Then, a 1/4" accessory output will be handy. Will you play a variety of places that have their own acoustic issues? Then a sweepable mid EQ control and notch filter will be handy. Will you play places that have sketchy electrical wiring? Then a fully isolated transformer or ground lift switch will be useful. Will you use something like an effects loop? People get good results using all the well known units. I think you need to sort out what features are most important to you and find the one that suits your needs best. The K&K XLR preamp is pretty good sounding but has about the fewest features. Check out all the websites and ask more questions!
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflink View Post
…How big of a difference does a Pre-Amp make?
Hi tf...

I've been using K&K for 10 years now, and have had many serious players and casual playing friends install them (dozens) after hearing us play live. I always recommend they start without a preamp, and then add one if they find need of more control.

If players gig with us (split a venue or where we are running sound) we always loan them a spare preamp (yes, we carry spares), and most everybody after starting without one, and hearing what a preamp brings to the party buys one.

The most frequent up bought for single source K&K till 3-4 years ago was the ParaDI. Nowdays, it's the Baggs Venue.

About any preamp will do a great job of improving the control over the sound, of a pickup. Even the Behringer V-TONE Acoustic Driver pedal and direct box ($29) does a nice job on acoustic tone.

Not the same quality as my Raven, or DTAR Solstice, or K&K pocket preamp, or ParaDI, or UltraSound preamps, but the Behringer box does a respectable job. It's like you bought a Direct Box and they throw the preamp in.

I've played with the Red-Eye, and Fishman, and others (including K&Ks preamps) and they all do a good job of improving the tone, and making it sound even more like an acoustic guitar to my ear (and my ear is as important as the audience's ear). If I sound better to me, I play more relaxed/better.

I personally own about 8 or 9 brands of preamps that I've collected over the past 20 years, and interchanging them, we have discounted the alleged impedance mis-match with K&K Pure mini pickups as being of any importance to everyone but anal-retentive electronic types. It's just not an issue in real life.

Hope you get the answers you need to build a decent live-sound.






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  #9  
Old 10-31-2014, 04:17 PM
mro87 mro87 is offline
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Amp: Fishman Loudbox Artist

Amplified guitars: Martin HD-28 with K&K mini and a Taylor K56 w/ ES.

Preamp: K&K Pure XLR

In general, the preamp improves the sound a lot. The difference is much more noticeable on the Martin. Without the preamp the guitar sound a bit tinny and metalic to my taste. With the preamp it warms up considerably and with proper tweaking it sound close to natural and very appealing. The difference on the Taylor is not as sharp but the preamp warms up the sound a bit in a nice way.
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Old 11-01-2014, 05:48 PM
Villamarzia Villamarzia is offline
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Hi theflink,
You could consider the dee-eye which is a minimal pre-DI you can keep always with you and will help a lot, provided you can rely on PA's phantom power. You have no controls whatsoever but I discover I don't need them, ever (I also have K&K on my guitars and I never EQ them). It just sounds good. It goes for 109€. This a pro level little thing. You can find it in EU at: http://www.rock-gear.de/Gitarre/Effe...e-Dee-Eye.html

I love mine. But be aware: you are entering a no return path into the world of acoustic guitar frustr... Ehm.. Amplification!
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:38 AM
SpiderTrap SpiderTrap is offline
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Default Behringer ADI21

I've toyed with 2 of these , and both didn't seem to do much of anything ...except lower the output of the guitar to the amp.. I read the fine print and said something like , These units may be upgraded with newer components from time to time , etc etc... so I ordered another ...The 3rd one actually works, and works good and has a 2014 date of manufacture on bottom . I compared circuit boards, both very different colors and saw several cold solder joints on the prior ones, and what appears to be much better solder works and some added components on the new one . They are a very useful tool for tailoring your sound for smoothness. Cant be beat for the price. I use rechargeable NiMH Batterys as they tend to eat them up. Keeping the old ones for spare parts , batt door 9 Volt wire plugs etc .. The 3rd one was like day and night from the 2 others, don't know what changes they made but a huge difference in sound and output .. Just ordered a Used SANSAMP Acoustic modeler to compare these with ... think that thing may be quite old , but will see how it works . I've been thru several DIGITAL effect modelers and sold them all, back to Analog , as seem to have a sweeter tonal quality, and not a noticeable fakey digital sound ..
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:51 PM
gratay gratay is offline
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Some may say otherwise but I feel the K&K needs a preamp. I used a K&K XLR preamp for years and while the price is right it doesn't have much control in the way of eq.
I've got one guitar that doesn't need much in the way of eq but my other guitar needs notching and more control over the mids which was always problematic with the K&K XLR.
I've recently changed to the Headway EDB-2 and couldn't be happier. It's a really great unit.
Not the same price as the XLR but you'll have no trouble plugging any acoustic instrument into it in the future no matter what it is.
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:15 PM
Yamaha Man Yamaha Man is offline
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I first heard about guitar pre-amps from Lita Ford (RunAways, Joan Jett, Ozzy Osborne)...yes the chick rocker. Many years ago, she was doing a guitar seminar at a local music store and I got to meet her there. She had a dynamite sounding electric guitar and everybody wanted to know her secret. She said she had an electronic guru friend of hers custom install a pre-amp into her guitar. This pre-amp required a battery, but it put out a very hot signal which in turn really boosted her sound into the amplifier and out into the crowd. I've been sold on pre-amps ever since.
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Last edited by Yamaha Man; 11-26-2014 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:21 PM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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If I hadn't started using a preamp I'd have ripped my first K&K out of my D-18GE within a week of installing. I hated it naked, and it wasn't much better even with my Baggs ParaDI. Got a K&K preamp, and now have K&K's in three guitars, including a Guild 12-string. YMMV
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:14 AM
Doug Michaels Doug Michaels is offline
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How much difference does a preamp make?? In a word, HUGE! In fact, each different preamp makes a different difference. I have had the luxury of using the best preamps available to mortals. I have to say that every one of them make my sound come out different from the rest. So, if you want to use a preamp, I suggest trying as many as you can get your hands on before buying. The Pendulum SPS-1 is the industries top preamp/eq used by a lot of major artists. I have one for sale right now if interested. But this is the best. Next is either a Dtar Solstice, Raven Labs, Tonebone PZ PRE or even the Fishman pre.

Have fun hunting.....let me know if I can help further.
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