Can't get this John Mayer Acoustic Sound

[sbux]

I've seen people get this sound or similar with an acoustic guitar and I've tried all different combinations and can't seem to understand how people do it. I have Guitar Rig and a Taylor 414ce guitar but have no idea what effects to use to produce this kind of sound. Specifically, the "fuzziness" on the low strings, and the sound on the high strings. It seems to have a nylon string guitar type sound which I like.
Anyone have any idea on how to produce this type of sound?

Waiting on the world to change
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKYrppBQDq0

[se7ent7]

Haha, my friend, this is simply a crappy fishman matrix type piezo pickup sound. A stellar example.

This is why we've moved on to the new generation of LR Baggs Lyric, Anthem, K&K Pure western mini, Trance audio amulet, etc, pickups.

Your Taylor 414CE probably has a the magnetic based Expression system pickup, which in my opinion is only slightly better, albeit vastly different to these undersaddle transducer (piezo) types. It's a magnetic sound, and although it has more body it remains very magnetic in overall tonality. You won't be able to approach a fishman undersaddle in any way with that. Lots of folks here would say you should be thankful.

Anyway so if you really want this type of sound get a Martin OM size guitar with a fishman (or martin rebranded fishman) in it. In fact, because of how generic these pickups make your amplified pickup sound, you can probably get very close with a much cheaper guitar. You mostly hear strings anyway, this makes sense if you consider how this kind of pickup works.

Let's just be clear, this tone isn't great and not what most of us would aspire to here.

[sbux]

Thanks for the reply. Your explanation is helpful. I'm having a hard time finding a sound that really speaks to me. I have a Takamine nylon string guitar that I can pick up and play for hours without noticing the time go by. I'm trying to get that feeling from an acoustic. Unfortunately, the neck is wide as is on most classical guitars and because of the way you fret a nylon string guitar I injured my hands from playing it.
The playability on a steel string guitar is much easier on the hands so ideally, i'd like to find a sound that really appeals to me and gives me the "hours go by without noticing" feeling. I've tried with Guitar Rig without much luck, although admittedly, I don't have experience with effects pedals and amps, so i'm not really sure of what I'm doing.

[Steely Glen]

Originally Posted by se7ent7

Let's just be clear, this tone isn't great and not what most of us would aspire to here.

I didn't think his tone was bad at all here. Let's also be clear that this is the tone that John Mayer aspires to. He is a bona fide tone hound. His penchant for Dumble amps and electric guitar kit is well-known, so he didn't just stumble onto the stage and plug-in. Rest assured, every aspect of Mayer's signal chain was likely chosen by him with great scrutiny, like it or not.

[McShepherd]

Originally Posted by Steely Glen

Rest assured, every aspect of Mayer's signal chain was likely chosen by him with great scrutiny, like it or not.

Looks to me, though, like a vid from early in his career (i.e., before touring with Buddy Guy), so I'd expect it to sound, as it does to me, less "hounded" and more like a young artist taking advantage of the big spotlight that lets him get his songs out to the masses.

[royd]

as was said, that is a pretty stereotypical under-saddle-transducer sound. While you will get lots of comments here that it is a terrible sound, it is still the sound that many folk associate with an amplified acoustic guitar.

To get it on your 414CE, you'd need to replace the ES system with a UTS. I think the comments are correct that Mayer used and still uses a Fishman UST. A fairly big change to your guitar but not terribly expensive to do. You could even leave the ES system pretty much in tact and just add the UST, the only tricky piece would be the endpin jack assemblies

[sbux]

Thanks everyone for the info. It's been a great help. So, it seems like an under saddle pickup is an extremely different sound than what the ES system on my taylor produces. Which I guess is focused more on accurately replicating the natural sound of the guitar? If this is the case, what kind of effects or techniques to people typically use on this type of guitar/pickup system to vary or alter the amplified sound? I'm looking to try and find a sound that really speaks to me and don't mind spending some time experimenting with Guitar Rig, or buying some effects pedals. I'm really new to using pedals and effects although I've been playing guitar for over 10 years. Finding a really good sound is what I really want. I just don't know how to go about this.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by se7ent7

Let's just be clear, this tone isn't great and not what most of us would aspire to here.

Let's not get too full of ourself here. I'll take John Mayer's sound anytime. Poor recordings are simply poor recordings.

[Slim]

He had a second microphone pointed at his guitar in this vid, in addition to whatever pickup to which his guitar cable was attached. He was probably getting better sound in real life as has been mentioned.

He is know to use a Fishman UST. So to get a similar sound, you could try a Fishman Prefix Blend which blends a UST and mic. Of course, a mic inside the guitar will sound different than one placed outside.

http://www.fishman.com/products/view...remium-blend-1

Plus, you need to grow banana hands so you can form some of those chords!

Tim

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by Steely Glen

I didn't think his tone was bad at all here. Let's also be clear that this is the tone that John Mayer aspires to. He is a bona fide tone hound. His penchant for Dumble amps and electric guitar kit is well-known, so he didn't just stumble onto the stage and plug-in. Rest assured, every aspect of Mayer's signal chain was likely chosen by him with great scrutiny, like it or not.

Good points, although as has been already suggested it may well be that we aren't really hearing the live sound that Mayer was creating. One doesn't know whether the recorded guitar part was taken directly from the pickup going into the board or whether the mics were mixed in. So I'm not sure we can say with confidence that what we are hearing on this YouTube video is the sound that Mayer aspired to.

This Tommy/Brad Paisley video similarly caught my attention a while back for the distinctive UST tone on Brad's guitar (which to my ear doesn't sound so great compared to Tommy's tone--good comparison after the 1:30 mark):

[StevenL]

Mayer's and Paisley's tone in these IMO is horrible. I'd rather be stabbed in both ears with icepicks than sit and listen to either. The bottom end on Mayer's vid sounds like a K&K to me. I guess he actually likes that sound but I'd much rather he'd just mic'd his guitar for that performance. There's really no reason for someone playing solo in a fixed position not to just use a nice mic or two with a really good preamp and sound sweet.

[lmacmil]

Originally Posted by royd

...that is a pretty stereotypical under-saddle-transducer sound. While you will get lots of comments here that it is a terrible sound, it is still the sound that many folk associate with an amplified acoustic guitar.

And there you have it! For the 90% of any audience that are not guitar players, they couldn't care less if the amplification is a mic, a UST or an SBT. They've come for the music not the guitar tone.

If the OP likes the UST-amplified sound, that's what he should go for. Rather than butcher the Taylor and make it almost unsellable, I would recommend he just sell the Taylor and buy something with a UST already installed or buy a non-electrified Taylor and install a UST. Regardless of the what you decide, don't ever expect to sound like John Mayer. There's a lot more to a guitar sound than just the instrument and amplification.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by StevenL

Mayer's and Paisley's tone in these IMO is horrible. I'd rather be stabbed in both ears with icepicks than sit and listen to either. The bottom end on Mayer's vid sounds like a K&K to me. I guess he actually likes that sound but I'd much rather he'd just mic'd his guitar for that performance. There's really no reason for someone playing solo in a fixed position not to just use a nice mic or two with a really good preamp and sound sweet.

That's a little dramatic! I am not a huge fan of UST systems. However, for the majority of professional players out there, this is the best option. AGF is a great resource but let's be honest, the majority of players on here play in solo or quiet settings where a SBT or SBT + mic system works great and produces quite natural tones. I would love to have the most natural tone possible but where I play (larger venues/ noisy bars), a SBT just won't work, especially if I add in a microphone.

With that said, I am surprised that guys like Paisley, Mayer, Clapton etc., have not switched over to something like the Anthem or Aura to at least improve on their tone.

[StevenL]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

That's a little dramatic! I am not a huge fan of UST systems. However, for the majority of professional players out there, this is the best option. AGF is a great resource but let's be honest, the majority of players on here play in solo or quiet settings where a SBT or SBT + mic system works great and produces quite natural tones. I would love to have the most natural tone possible but where I play (larger venues/ noisy bars), a SBT just won't work, especially if I add in a microphone.

With that said, I am surprised that guys like Paisley, Mayer, Clapton etc., have not switched over to something like the Anthem or Aura to at least improve on their tone.

I don't know about that. I see two great players side by side. One sounds decent (notwithstanding the boring shredfest), the other sounds like poo. That tells me it's not the best option for a majority of professional players. But I do like a bit of drama, I confess. And I understand about large venues/loud volume. But we're talking about ONE guy sitting by himself playing and singing. No excuse for that quacking horror, IMO. Pretty fowl.

[dgonz]

My two cents: I like Taylor guitars, but the ES system is garbage for me. I hate the tone. Unless someone has a super-light attack and plays only open position chords, I can't see this being a good system for most. Try some blues leads or harder playing higher on the neck and it sounds like ***. I threw an LR Baggs M1A in my Taylor because of it, and eventually just sold the guitar altogether.