Blackbird eKoa (soundboard) tops

[Acousticado]

I seem to recall reading that the Savoy has a double top. I have read a bit in the past about the purpose and benefit of acoustic guitars built with a double top, but I’m not remembering right now. I can research in general, but if it’s true that the Savoy is built as such (is the El Capitan?), I’m curious if there’s any specific info about Blackbird’s process, especially if there’s anything unique given the ekoa material.

[Acousticado]

Ah-ha! Found it! My recollection was true.

The tops of Blackbirds ekoa guitars are built as double tops. I’ve also read more about the history and use of double tops in general. It seems that the concept was borne in classical guitars. Quite interesting and seemingly very favorable.

I can see how this concept used in a Savoy (two layers of ekoa sandwiching a core layer of honeycombed Nomex) could really help a small guitar achieve significant gains in volume and enhanced tone.

August 2014 article in Acoustic Guitar Magazine.
https://www.blackbirdguitar.com/blog...er-gone-before

Excerpt...

“Luttwak runs his fingers along the grain lines of a sheet of Ekoa that will later be used in the Clara ukuleles the company is working on. He explains part of the material’s appeal is that since flax is a plant, the long flax fibers in Ekoa are similarly structured to the grain lines in woods used for guitar tops.

Where this new material is different from wood is how it’s layered. Blackbird uses a structure that’s more like the double-top guitars gaining popularity in the nylon-string world. However, instead of using cedar and spruce, Luttwak and his team use two layers of Ekoa arranged perpendicular to each other and sandwiching a core made from Nomex, a honeycombed polymer that’s used as the center layer for double-top classical guitars. The resulting triple-layer structure produces strength along the length and width of the guitar, resulting in a balanced laminate that he says is flatter and stiffer than wood.”

Knowing this helps me better understand the innovation and genius of Joe...and explains why the Savoy costs as much as it does.

[Acousticado]

Evan, as a nylon lover...the double top design has emerged from the classical nylon world, so it makes sense that a nylon Savoy or other ekoa model could be a future offering. Have you asked Joe directly?

[Acousticado]

All...

Dontcha just love the varying concepts and innovations that each of the prominent composite builders are utilizing to create their unique instruments? Way cool!

Acousticado;

Like you, I had given a transient look at double top guitars. The information you bring here is interesting and mostly new to me.

I have not approached Joe regarding a double-topped nylon string guitar. In part because, as Ted has noted, Joe is busy keeping up with demand for his work. There will be a point when production gets steady and moves smoothly and then Joe will move on, hopefully to a nylon string.

Yes, the creativity coming from the dominant CF makers is astounding. It's really neat being a part of the action.

[Acousticado]

Origin and development of the double top guitar...
http://www.classicguitar.com/the-ori...le-top-guitar/

Cool article, there is no end to perfection. Thanks for the research.

[kramster]

Originally Posted by EvanB

Acousticado;
Joe will move on, hopefully to a nylon string.

Ill see Joe this weekend at NAMM..I am going with his company name on me lil 'KRAMSTER' badge... should I sway him away or toward a nylon Savoy like critter? Will he laugh at me? Will I be his buddy for life after that? Will I be banned from NAMM? Will I have to learn French? So much that could happen...

[Long Jon]

Why not call it plywood ? OK, laminate ? Less confusing to me.

In Britain “Double Tops” is the double 20 right at the top of the dartboard.

Also a key stage in early courtship.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

Why not call it plywood ? OK, laminate ? Less confusing to me.

In Britain “Double Tops” is the double 20 right at the top of the dartboard.

Also a key stage in early courtship.

Because “plywood/laminate” implies a cheap connotation and won’t allow builders to charge the big bucks!

Seriously though, I suppose it is a laminate of sorts but in the case of double tops, the process is viewed as a positive design feature that provides tonal benefits. Of course, I don’t understand the nature of the flax/resin-infused linen in terms of whether it can be used as a standalone layer or if it requires the ekoa/Nomex/ekoa triple layering (oddly still referred to as double top) to provide sufficient rigidity. Being that ekoa is proprietary to Blackbird, likely only Joe could answer that.

Kram, wanna ask Joe when you see him? I sure am curious about the subtleties of this.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

Why not call it plywood ? OK, laminate ? Less confusing to me...

Jon, we can't call it plywood, because it's not wood. And for the record, all CF is made of multi layers that are laminated, but only Rainsong and Blackbird use a form of "double top" constriction.

For those that are interested, here is an article on double top construction.

http://www.dominelliguitars.com/tech...struction.html

Ted; Thank you for the article. It is really well written and clear.

Kramster; While using your dance card with Joe, rather than sway one way or another, I'd appreciate it if you'd just ask him if he has any thoughts regarding an Ekoa nylon strung guitar. Thank you for any consideration you may give this request.

Long Jon; Would you please explain how "double tops" relates to courtship? Brit-speak can be pretty strange for of us who speak English.

[Earl49]

Kramster, tell Joe that Earl said "hi" when you see him, and that both my Lucky 13 and my new Farallon are getting lots of play time. I hope to see him in Reno in early May at the ukulele festival. I cannot make it to NAMM this year. Our time is reserved for a trip to the Phoenix area in FEB, where I hope to organize a mini carbon-fest. Just waiting on one more return phone call to set a date,

As for double tops, etc -- I am personally interested in the details, but the "rubber meets the road" in the tone, not the construction minutiae.

[Long Jon]

Originally Posted by EvanB

Long Jon; Would you please explain how "double tops" relates to courtship? Brit-speak can be pretty strange for of us who speak English.

Strictly schoolyard juvenile speak, let’s just say it’s a couple of steps on from “just holding hands”

[kramster]

Oh those Brit speakers.. Had a roomie years ago, Tristan, that pointed out things that Benny Hill said and did that us on this side of the pond who don't really speak "English" completely missed. Made the show better.