Rhythm Changes Question

[OddManOut]

I'm reading an online lesson which gives the three basic chord patterns for Rhythm Changes as

• I VI ii V
• iii VI ii V
• ii V I(IV) iv

My question is with the notation of the last line.



The ii V I sequence there is in the key of the (IV). i.e. if we're playing in G, the ii V I(IV) would be the chords (extensions omitted) Dm G C .



Is there some reason this is notated with a key change? It seems it would just as easily be notated v I IV without having to indicate a key change.



Thank you!

[815C]

Originally Posted by OddManOut

if we're playing in G, the ii V I(IV) would be the chords (extensions omitted) Dm G C

I the key of G, ii V I would be Am D G.

There are several variations to "Rhythm Changes". In this blog post I talk about playing over the I vi ii V variation and show the chords that.

[JonPR]

It's not a key change, but the numerals are confusingly written.

it should be ii/IV - V/IV - IV - iv. (Dm7-G7-C-Cm if the key is G.)

The first two chords are secondary (secondary supertonic, secondary dominant). They "tonicise" the IV (briefly), but don't create a "modulation" to IV.
It could be written as you suggest - v-I-IV - but that doesn't represent the chords' function. The "I", e.g, is a dom7 type, not a maj7.

BTW, the original changes (A section) are as follows:

I - vi - ii - V
I - vi - ii - V
I - I7 (V/IV) - IV - #IVdim7
I - V - I - V

The changes quoted give some common variants, namely:
1. iii can substitute for I;
2. the vi can be VI - which is functionally V/ii (another secondary dominant).
3. IV can be followed by iv instead of #IVdim;
4. the last line is usually played the same as the first two (I vi ii V);

Another common variant is that the ii could be II (V/V) - another secondary dominant.

[imwjl]

With the answers there, I'll point out that I still enjoy having an old school laminated stock and modern app "circle of 5ths" handy.

I haven't shopped for them in a long time but I think nearly all brick and mortar stores have those guides. A nice simple phone app I used is no longer supported but a newer iPhone & iPad app "Circle Of Fifths" from a German guy is good. He's updated it and fixed bugs fast.

This guy might be an AGF member. He used to post or maybe still does post on other forums.

https://www.randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by imwjl

With the answers there, I'll point out that I still enjoy having an old school laminated stock and modern app "circle of 5ths" handy.

I haven't shopped for them in a long time but I think nearly all brick and mortar stores have those guides. A nice simple phone app I used is no longer supported but a newer iPhone & iPad app "Circle Of Fifths" from a German guy is good. He's updated it and fixed bugs fast.

This guy might be an AGF member. He used to post or maybe still does post on other forums.

https://www.randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/

That's a nice site...thanks!

[OddManOut]

Originally Posted by JonPR

It's not a key change, but the numerals are confusingly written.

it should be ii/IV - V/IV - IV - iv. (Dm7-G7-C-Cm if the key is G.)

The first two chords are secondary (secondary supertonic, secondary dominant). They "tonicise" the IV (briefly), but don't create a "modulation" to IV.
It could be written as you suggest - v-I-IV - but that doesn't represent the chords' function. The "I", e.g, is a dom7 type, not a maj7.

BTW, the original changes (A section) are as follows:

I - vi - ii - V
I - vi - ii - V
I - I7 (V/IV) - IV - #IVdim7
I - V - I - V

The changes quoted give some common variants, namely:
1. iii can substitute for I;
2. the vi can be VI - which is functionally V/ii (another secondary dominant).
3. IV can be followed by iv instead of #IVdim;
4. the last line is usually played the same as the first two (I vi ii V);

Another common variant is that the ii could be II (V/V) - another secondary dominant.

AHA! The notation indicates chord function...very helpful. Thank you!

# 3 above is helpful, as well. I'll fiddle with it.