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Old 12-14-2017, 06:28 PM
Jamiejoon Jamiejoon is offline
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Default Looking for a nice set of Brazilian Kingwood

Hi Everyone, not sure if this is exactly the right place for this post, but I figured there might be a wood-hoarding luthier out there who would have what I seek. I realize of course that most luthiers do not sell from their stash, but as most customers don't even know what kingwood is, it would not be offensive to ask.

I am looking to buy a really nice quartersawn set of Brazilian kingwood, suitable for a 00 to OM size guitar.

I have bought a couple sets of kingwood over the years, but my sources are not great.

Can anyone help me?

Thanks, Jamie
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2017, 01:56 PM
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I would imagine that if a luthier had a stash of kingwood, they would be reluctant to sell it unless they are thinking of retiring. It would be of much more valuable made into a guitar. A quartersawn set is a long shot these days.
The only supplier I have seen with sets recently is RC tonewoods, although they are not quartersawn. Here's the link.
http://rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store/kingwood-c-1_143/
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:43 PM
CaE CaE is offline
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You are much more likely to be able to find a quartered set if you're willing to do a 4-piece back. It's not a large tree and rare in large dimensions.
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:13 PM
Glenn23 Glenn23 is offline
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Hearne Hardwood imported some kingwood logs a while back. Don't know how big they were.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:26 AM
Jamiejoon Jamiejoon is offline
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Bill, Chris, and Glenn, thank you for your suggestions.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Ensor View Post
You are much more likely to be able to find a quartered set if you're willing to do a 4-piece back. It's not a large tree and rare in large dimensions.
That's a good point Chris, it would be much easier to work with quarter sawn wood if the consumer was OK with the idea of four piece backs, something we should all try and get used to.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:58 PM
N K Forster N K Forster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Kraus View Post
That's a good point Chris, it would be much easier to work with quarter sawn wood if the consumer was OK with the idea of four piece backs, something we should all try and get used to.
I made the decision years ago that it was better to have a 4 or more piece quarter sawn back than a 2 piece slab sawn.

This is a 5 piece:



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Old 12-16-2017, 01:01 PM
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I was going to recommend reaching out to Simon or using a four piece back as others have recommended.

Like African Blackwood and Cocobolo, Kingwood is among of the densest rosewoods (see below). The only Kingwood guitar that I have ever seen was the one that Simon shared with us years back.

Dense Rosewoods:
1,270 kg/m3 - African Blackwood (Dalbergia melanoxylon)
1,200 kg/m3 - Kingwood (Dalbergia cearensis)
1,095 kg/m3 - Cocobolo (Dalbergia retusa)
1,085 kg/m3 - Amazon Rosewood (Dalbergia spruceana)
1,040 kg/m3 - Burmese Blackwood (Dalbergia cultrata)
1,035 kg/m3 - Siamese Rosewood (Dalbergia cochinchinensis)
1,020 kg/m3 - Honduran Rosewood (Dalbergia stevensonii)

Moderate Density Rosewoods:
970 kg/m3 - Tulipwood (Dalbergia cultrata)
940 kg/m3 - Burmese Rosewood (Dalbergia oliveri)
935 kg/m3 - Madagascar Rosewood (Dalbergia baronii, greveana, madagascariensis, monticola)
930 kg/m3 - Boise de Rose (Dalbergia maritima)

Lighter Density Rosewoods:
835 kg/m3 - Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra)
830 kg/m3 - East Indian Rosewood (Dalbergia latifolia)
770 kg/m3 - Sissoo (Dalbergia sissoo)
745 kg/m3 - Panama Rosewood (Dalbergia tucarensis)

May I ask 1) why specifically you are wanting Kingwood; and 2) Why are you sourcing your own wood vs. using a set that your luthier’s woodlocker that they selected and seasoned?
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:22 PM
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LMI used to stock some Kingwood. Perhaps 20 years ago I went through about 20 sets there and found one had the appearance of being quartered . . . It wasn't really, but I bought it anyway. I made a 16" guitar from it and it did have a big sound, though rather more bass biased than I prefer. The thing I remember most was that I had unprecedented gluing issues, enough so that I would seriously hesitate to try it again. I have never again happened upon a set that even appeared to be quartered.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:31 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Cook Woods has a few sets. There were a couple sets that look to have at least a majority of "quartered" wood to it. Most of the sides looked quartered, at least from my monitor... you may want to check them out..
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:39 PM
Jamiejoon Jamiejoon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
LMI used to stock some Kingwood. Perhaps 20 years ago I went through about 20 sets there and found one had the appearance of being quartered . . . It wasn't really, but I bought it anyway. I made a 16" guitar from it and it did have a big sound, though rather more bass biased than I prefer. The thing I remember most was that I had unprecedented gluing issues, enough so that I would seriously hesitate to try it again. I have never again happened upon a set that even appeared to be quartered.
Bruce, thanks for your insight. I imagine your wood locker as one that holds rare and special treasures. I still would like to take you up on your kind offer to visit, I have just had an intense year with work and haven't had much free time to visit. I doubt it is possible to find true quartersawn kingwood, unless (as some folks have said) as 4 piece, which would be fine...though I will really settle for flat or rift sawm that is straight-grained enough to appear quartersawn.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:52 PM
Jamiejoon Jamiejoon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post

May I ask 1) why specifically you are wanting Kingwood; and 2) Why are you sourcing your own wood vs. using a set that your luthier’s woodlocker that they selected and seasoned?
I am a tree nerd, and would like to have guitars made from rare awesome tonewoods in and related to the Dalbergias, as well as other branches of the tree tree. For example, I'd like to have a Pernambuco guitar, and see also my John Kinnaird Pau Santo guitar in process. Of the Dalbergias, I think Kingwood is exceptionally beautiful and I am told it makes a very fine tonewood. Really I fell in love with it when I saw that amazing guitar Simon Fay made.

As to why would I buy it instead of sourcing it from my luthier: I have a number of custom builds in process or coming in the next few years. I can't afford to make another commitment for one right now, but I am concerned that by the time I feel comfortable doing so, I will not be able to find Kingwood of outstanding quality. So in the case of very rare woods like this, I am trying to find sets now. Of course not all luthiers are open to using customer-supplied back and sides, but one step at a time.
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:31 PM
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Not meaning to hijack this thread, but there are many trees that make fine guitars but are too small for 2 piece quartered backs to be very likely. Amazon, Dalberia spruceana, is another such. Amazon does not have gluing issues, and it otherwise similar in density etc to Kingwood, and can have killer great landscaping. As it happens, just yesterday I acquired a couple of 4 piece back sets of Amazon. I do believe I will be able to make heartstopping guitars from these pieces. This is the way I'd recommend you went with the Kingwood (unless I could discourage you from it altogether, as I would, if I could).

There's about 6" to burn on an OM sized guitar, which gets this close to quartered throughout.



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Old 12-16-2017, 08:24 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Another option would be a vaulted or staved back somewhere along the lines of David Anthony Reid, or Bernard Lehmann...
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:41 PM
Jamiejoon Jamiejoon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Not meaning to hijack this thread, but there are many trees that make fine guitars but are too small for 2 piece quartered backs to be very likely. Amazon, Dalberia spruceana, is another such. Amazon does not have gluing issues, and it otherwise similar in density etc to Kingwood, and can have killer great landscaping. As it happens, just yesterday I acquired a couple of 4 piece back sets of Amazon. I do believe I will be able to make heartstopping guitars from these pieces. This is the way I'd recommend you went with the Kingwood (unless I could discourage you from it altogether, as I would, if I could).

There's about 6" to burn on an OM sized guitar, which gets this close to quartered throughout.



Wowza! Very Georgia O'Keefe! I am totally open to 4-piece backs. Heartstopping guitars is what we are looking for.
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