Pedal recommendations for the most natural sound

[Nama Ensou]

One very powerful option would be the T-Rex Soulmate Acoustic, which in addition to effects of reverb, delay, compression, chorus, looper, parametric eq, solo boost and tuner. It's larger than many would want to carry, but I found it pretty valuable to me a couple years ago when I was playing four nights a week as an acoustic soloist, and even used most of its selections with the notable exception of the poorly implemented looper. Not actually being much a fan of looping, I did use a Ditto x2 for when I felt like giving myself a simple background to solo over.

[EZYPIKINS]

Boy this question opens up a big ol' can of worms. What is natural sound?

Think you're gonna run through any kind of electronics and get a "natural" sound? Think again.

At some point you're gonna have to settle.

When I'm running through an amp, I know it is what it is.

I prefer to DI into a sound system. The better the system, the better the tone. But I always use Radial JDI's to convert to low impedance. The mixer will thank you for this.

[fwphoto]

I also play in a praise band & run my D-18 into a Polytune3, then into a Fishman ToneDEC, then to the house pa. I mention the Polytune because, IMO, you really need to be able to mute your signal when you're not playing. Tuning your guitar is nice, too. :-) I know the M80 has a volume wheel (at least the M1A does) but I'd rather have a quick button on the floor in front of me than using the dial for muting rather than just adjusting the pickup level. Not necessary but super useful! The ToneDEQ is a high-quality DI box that also offers a few other features that, while not essential, can be really helpful. Decent EQ + a very user friendly Compressor really help shape the signal. I also use the Boost button & a few very nice, subtle effects like Reverb & Chorus almost every time I play. Just a few things to think about!

Take care,

Frank

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

Why has no one mentioned the LR Baggs Voiceprint DI or the Tonedexter?

Hi YG
Probably because it's not technically a pedal (it's a processor), and it's not cheap, and it's programmable, and you have to record IRs for it.

I'll mention it. This time (Oct 2018) 5 years ago I received a ToneDexter as my Christmas gift from my wife, and have used it ever since.

I've kept up the firmware updates, and have always recorded WaveMaps with fairly high quality studio mics (AKG 414 and Shure KSM-44).

I tried it with the alleged SM57 and SM58, and there is no comparison to how much MORE natural my guitars sound with the Maps pulled from the 1" diaphragm, high end mics.

Experimented with 4 different locations (where the mics were placed and aimed) and several distances which I catalogued. So when I need to pull new WaveMaps for a guitar, I know where to start.

Not everybody is ready to invest this kind of money in making a guitar sound more natural. I did it as an experiment. The ToneDexter is $600, and the mics I use (even if I only had one of them) cost north of $1000 each.

I used K&K dual source (Pure Mini combined with internal Silver Bullet mic) with decent Dual Source preamps for a dozen years happily. When I purchased the ToneDexter it was purely an experiment.

A switch which totally eliminated feedback in band situations on stage with my guitar exposed to the mains (slightly behind us) and using a floor monitor in front aimed up at me from about 5 feet. A switch which makes my guitar sound like it sounds to me in the living room through the mains.

It captures the nuances of when I strum with nails versus side of the thumb, and when I pluck with a hint of nails for emphasis versus my normal all flesh finger style playing.

I'm 75 yrs old (fall 2023) and am likely a lot more concerned with how my acoustic guitars sound in the mix than most players. Especially when I'm leading on the Worship Team (as opposed to playing backing).

So now we've introduced IR devices into the topic as well.

[edward993]

Originally Posted by Elihouse13

Awesome!! I actually already own a Nux Optima Air! I just haven’t messed with it much. I am thinking to maybe do a Lr Baggs venue for more simple stuff then maybe layer on the IR if needed.

Thank you all for the responses and help!

I've used the Venue for many years with excellent results. It is easy to use, and two bands of sweep EQ and two bands of treble where other units have only one (and its decent preamp) go a long way to shaping an acoustic's pickup tone to sound more natural.

That said, aint no denying what IRs bring to the table! But that's a different arena that translates to more time and experimentation. Which will yield great results, mind you, but sometimes simple and fast is better.


Edward

[Jeffreykip]

Originally Posted by Marshall

You're opening Pandora's box. Be careful, there's a bottomless rabbit hole in there.

Yessiree! Since you start by writing it is your first post, let me say that your question is the macguffin of the whole acoustic pickup and amplifier industry and the subject of about a jillion threads. All the ideas here are great. The mixer you are using has eq for the channel you are plugged in to, so you might want to start there. An acoustic DI (direct in, which is what you are doing) will have eq plus shape your tone to compliment the acoustic sound going into the mixer, plus little extras like feedback blocker or phase shift. Regardless of which way you go, learn to enjoy lots of time tweaking a knob, listening as hard as you can, and then tweaking again. Most importantly: If you never get exactly the sound you want you will have joined a club that includes about 99% of acoustic guitar players.

[jonfields45]

An IR pedal won't help much for a magnetic pickup. It just isn't going to work for a host of reasons that the math could make clear...

I've listened to plenty of performers, lately Leo Kottke and Lyle Lovett, perform with magnetic pickups and sound quite good. Maybe not exactly perfectly acoustic guitar, but very pleasant.

I suggest you don't buy anything! If EQ could really help, Baggs would have engineered that into the pickup in the first place. They've got loads of experts to make these products as good as they can be.

I would also suggest not going down the pickup selection rabbit hole. But if perfect acoustic tone is your desire, you need a sound board transducer and an IR. ToneDexter is the best IR solution for this problem. Cheaper pedals, and/or free IRs, can get you close. Other than the James May Ultratonic, any SBT will be more of a feedback hassle depending on how the monitors are oriented.

I recommend learning to love the sound you've got and rest assured your audience won't know the difference no matter what you do.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=677484

[alohachris]

Aloha,

For the most natural sound? LOSE THE PEDAL BOARD!

Unless you have your own soundman & unlimited funds to buy the best pedals or have them made, A PEDAL BOARD IS INTRINSICALLY NOISE CENTRAL. Too many cheap electronics brought together in too close proximity.

The cheap, affordable pedals that most players use are typically noisier, hummier, buzzier & hissier than 'h-ll.' The more you add together in the chain, the more noise, lost headroom & compressed sound results.

Pedal boards are definitely convenient, but have nothing to do with clear, natural acoustic sound. IMO, They are for players who really are electric guitar players, to whom noise is lees of an issue. It's diferent for most acoustic players.

I've heard thousands of these flawed attempts at onstage controls. IMO, Lose the noisy stompbox gear if you want a chance at acoustic natural Live Sound. Learn how to use a laptop onstage with IR devices (I'm not there yet, HA!) for everything.

alohachris

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

For the most natural sound? LOSE THE PEDAL BOARD!

Unless you have your own soundman & unlimited funds to buy the best pedals or have them made, A PEDAL BOARD IS INTRINSICALLY NOISE CENTRAL. Too many cheap electronics brought together in too close proximity.

The cheap, affordable pedals that most players use are typically noisier, hummier, buzzier & hissier than 'h-ll.' The more you add together in the chain, the more noise, lost headroom & compressed sound results.

Pedal boards are definitely convenient, but have nothing to do with clear, natural acoustic sound. IMO, They are for players who really are electric guitar players, to whom noise is lees of an issue. It's diferent for most acoustic players.

I've heard thousands of these flawed attempts at onstage controls. IMO, Lose the noisy stompbox gear if you want a chance at acoustic natural Live Sound. Learn how to use a laptop onstage with IR devices (I'm not there yet, HA!) for everything.

alohachris

Not sure what rigs you're listening to, but my electric pedalboard has 13 pedals and is whisper quiet. My acoustic-electric board has 6 and is also whisper quiet.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by YamahaGuy

Not sure what rigs you're listening to, but my electric pedalboard has 13 pedals and is whisper quiet. My acoustic-electric board has 6 and is also whisper quiet.

Agreed - welcome to digital audio and well-engineered power supplies.

[Marshall]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

An IR pedal won't help much for a magnetic pickup. It just isn't going to work for a host of reasons that the math could make clear..

I disagree. I know the storyline about Mags and IRs. But I'm having success with my Mag/Sbt pickup and the IR in the NUX pedal. It may not be an exact acoustic match to the original guitar sound. But it's pretty darn close and a definite improvement over the pickup by itself.

[edward993]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Agreed - welcome to digital audio and well-engineered power supplies.

Wholly agree x10! And I have a mixture of digital and analog pedals on my electric board, and my acoustic board is wholly analog: both are 100% silent! Forget about hiss, hums, buzz, or whatever noise; I am talking about dead silent.

Further, since when does a garden-variety acoustic pup going straight into a console or PA yield you the most "natural acoustic" tone? Some pup/guitar combos are better than others, to be sure, but the blanket statement that this is the best way to get the "most natural" sound simply isn't correct. There are many --many-- preamps and EQs that allow one to shape the tone that a pup produces. Why? Because the raw output from the great majority of pickup systems benefit from at least some EQing, and other systems require considerable shaping to sound "acoustic."

Edward

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Marshall

I disagree.

Me too.

It may not make it sound like an acoustic guitar but it makes it sound less like a box of spanners.

[steelvibe]

Another idea you could use, but really for the fussiest among us, is to dial in a sound you think you like and run some chord changes and some arppegiated pick/finger picking through a looper. Replay your loop in the system while you walk around the house, and go back to make adjustments based on what you liked/disliked about what you hear. Yes, a good or great EQ can work wonders. I actually think running an EQ to the board with a wet mix while running the board flat and dry is best anyway because the tools you have at your feet are often “voiced” for acoustic guitar.

Having a good sound engineer goes a long way, but my experience playing in various church bands is that you typically have volunteers who barely know what they are doing. It’s frustrating though, because even when you dial in a great sound, the rest of the band enters your sonic terrain. Vocal and keys run HOT, and can easily drown out even an electric guitar.