Martin HD-28 with Trance Amulet M-VT ToneDexter Slot 22 WaveMap Sound File

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Please do that Maury!

Quick & dirty. Please forgive the string buzz; I was playing aggressively in an effort to give the pickup a fair test.

Trance Audio Amulet MVT direct recording. NO processing, FX or EQ. Volume and Tone controls WIDE OPEN. Martin HD-28 Sunburst. Charmed Life CLT75 pick. Recorded direct to Garageband through a 1/4"-to-XLR barrel connector & a Shure X2U usb interface. Certainly not the best way to capture hi-fi acoustic audio, but I'm heading to a gig. Thanks for listening.

[Cuki79]

Thanks Maury,

from what I hear you have tuned the Amulet to have slightly more bass pickup than treble pickup.

I am I right?

Cuki

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Thanks Maury,

from what I hear you have tuned the Amulet to have slightly more bass pickup than treble pickup.

I am I right?

Cuki

You're welcome and yes, I boosted the bass side lens very slightly.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

You're welcome and yes, I boosted the bass side lens very slightly.

And that's a great feature potential Trance buyers should be aware of! By the turn of a small screw in the preamp, accessed by a long screwdriver through the guitar's soundhole, a player can balance or accentuate the relative volume of the Bass- and Treble-side Amulet transducers.

[Petty1818]

Hmm, maybe I should try the trim control. At the moment, it sounds like the high end is dominating my signal. Maybe I just need to balance it a bit more.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Hmm, maybe I should try the trim control. At the moment, it sounds like the high end is dominating my signal. Maybe I just need to balance it a bit more.

I have the same problem Petty. I gave up installing because I did so many times and I don't have the time anymore. I think you can balance it by putting more low pickup. However only the treble pickup is quack free, it has the best tone, string attack... So it is an endless fight.

I am thinking now about trying Dave's new pickup. I listenned to it and it seems that he found his unicorn

The only problem is that the Amulet sounds perfect with my homemade IR. My process is now mature. I applied to my D-18 + Lyric and I am thrilled.

With the IR, the amulet is a good candidate because it has higher headroom and better high-end.

Even with IR processing it is always better to cut frequencies than to add... Amulet has everything, just a too much highs.

Cuki

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I have the same problem Petty. I gave up installing because I did so many times and I don't have the time anymore. I think you can balance it by putting more low pickup. However only the treble pickup is quack free, it has the best tone, string attack... So it is an endless fight.

I am thinking now about trying Dave's new pickup. I listenned to it and it seems that he found his unicorn

The only problem is that the Amulet sounds perfect with my homemade IR. My process is now mature. I applied to my D-18 + Lyric and I am thrilled.

With the IR, the amulet is a good candidate because it has higher headroom and better high-end.

Even with IR processing it is always better to cut frequencies than to add... Amulet has everything, just a too much highs.

Cuki

Yep, that high end is almost impossible to dial out. I can cut the highs but it's to the extreme where the pickup starts sounding muddy. To be honest, even in Maury's latest clip, I could hear that signature piezo tone that I have mentioned the Amulet having.

Did Dave post a clip of his new pickup? I have always been interested in PUTW, especially their Dynamic trio system (#54 w/ UST).

[SpruceTop]

I guess it's time to dial-out Trance products as viable pickup/preamp choices for acoustic guitars. I want to apologize to everyone to whom I've recommended Trance products. I'll still be using mine and I sincerely hope everyone finds what they're looking (or hearing) for. From this point on I will no longer recommend any product that I have experience with to Acoustic Guitar Forum members, after all, half the fun is in the hunt!

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Yep, that high end is almost impossible to dial out. I can cut the highs but it's to the extreme where the pickup starts sounding muddy. To be honest, even in Maury's latest clip, I could hear that signature piezo tone that I have mentioned the Amulet having.



Did Dave post a clip of his new pickup? I have always been interested in PUTW, especially their Dynamic trio system (#54 w/ UST).

I haven't yet made any recordings that are fit for public consumption. I don't have a professional recording mic yet. But, Cuki and AeroUSA were both complimentary of the recordings I made with a vocal mic. I would recommend Doug Young's recordings. But before everyone jumps one the train, let me get some gigs in. I want to feel confident about the dependability before making a recommendation. Doug said it's the most natural pickup he's ever heard. I agree. The question, again, is adhesion and dependability. Time will tell.

Ken,

You've been super helpful to all of us. Don't be the least bit discouraged. Remember that the direct recordings we are all fixated on lately are not the end game. How it sounds through the amp is the key. And the Trance sounds great through a good clean PA system. I do recommend the tone wheel to roll off some of the highs. There is no perfect pickup. And we appreciate you turning us all onto that one.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Hmm, maybe I should try the trim control. At the moment, it sounds like the high end is dominating my signal. Maybe I just need to balance it a bit more.

Against my new personal directive to not recommend anything about anything to anyone, how about the M-VT Volume/Tone control module/wire-harness for $40, have you considered ordering that? The Trance M-VT is what I have experience with, and is what I've recommended, but few choose to buy, for some reason, over the bare-bones Trance M system.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Against my new personal directive to not recommend anything about anything to anyone, how about the M-VT Volume/Tone control module/wire-harness for $40, have you considered ordering that? The Trance M-VT is what I have experience with, and is what I've recommended, but few choose to buy, for some reason, over the bare-bones Trance M system.

I think I also mentioned this, but the Trance is basically unusable without the VT wheel. It should not be sold without it. Petty, you should seriously consider it. Doing outside EQ is more difficult.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Against my new personal directive to not recommend anything about anything to anyone, how about the M-VT Volume/Tone control module/wire-harness for $40, have you considered ordering that? The Trance M-VT is what I have experience with, and is what I've recommended, but few choose to buy, for some reason, over the bare-bones Trance M system.

Honestly, you have been extremely helpful throughout the process and I wouldn't hesitate to listen to your recommendations. I still think the Amulet high end has a lot to do with my guitar. The best reports I am hearing are from Martin owners where the guitar is warm and not overly bright.

I am considering the VT controls though. I think the reason I got the straight forward Amulet was because of the cost. I am in Canada so it is pricey. I did try that set up in a Gibson once though. The thing I liked was that dialling out more high end did not make the tone muddy, it just smoothed things out. Could be just what I need.

[SpruceTop]

Frankly, despite the thin and strong permanent adhesive Trance Audio has developed, I think there's likely a better adhesive for mounting the Amulets. One of the reasons K&K systems are so loud is the intimate contact that super glue enables the transducers to make with the bridgeplate. I haven't tried superglue to mount Amulets but perhaps a "virgin" bridgeplate would enable the Amulets to transmit more amplitude and intimate presence to downstream components than does the permanent tape? The advice and experience presented by Gary Hull and Doug Young have shown that mounting Amulets to a bridgeplate previously infused with superglue results in a very thin amplified tone. Perhaps an initial mounting of Amulets with superglue to a "virgin" bridgeplate would result in better amplified tone from a Trance Amulet system than using the current thin permanent tape?

Exploring adhesives further, how about an even thinner permanent tape? The problem with this is although a thinner permanent tape may help amplified tone, it would be even more difficult to work with than the current thin thickness of this tape. Better yet, how about developing a thin liquid-based version of the permanent tape that could be put on the Amulet by the drop and spread with the tip of the applicator to form a very thin adhesive film that would hold well, transmit better tone, but still be removable later? How about trying a two-part epoxy adhesive such as Dazzos use for mounting? Does it result in a thinner adhesive film than the thickness of the current Trance permanent tape?

For comparison with the Trance flat-picked soundfiles I've posted, I wish someone would post some straight from the K&K system flat EQ soundfiles using an outboard preamp for proper impedance buffering only, and without any additional tone-shaping EQ, and that are played with a flatpick using a medium-to-fast tempo Carter-style alternating bass/chord/melody technique, and with a moderately aggressive attack. Use "Wildwood Flower" or "Crossing Muddy Waters" or "Under The Double Eagle" as examples in choosing a tune to use for a demo.

In summary, any amplified tonal shortcomings that Trance users have experienced with their Trance systems I feel could be solved or greatly lessened with a thinner adhesive. Your thoughts welcomed!

[Cuki79]

Hi Ken,

Does a thinner adhesive would make a difference... I am not sure. Somehow I feel that the more contact you have with the nut the closer to a UST you'll get.

I think you'd get more volume but also more quack and non linearity from the piezo.

Since people in the US have now Tonedexters. It is a not a real problem

Here is for example what I can get from my last homemade IR


Martin HD-28
1) DPA mic
2) TA Amulet (tone open)
3) TA Amulet + IR.

I don't match exactly the mic take but it is not ridiculous. I have other IRs with a tone more "close", "less airy" that gets closer to the mic overall tone.

But when playing on an amp, neither is better or worse.

Cuki

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Hi Ken,

Does a thinner adhesive would make a difference... I am not sure. Somehow I feel that the more contact you have with the nut the closer to a UST you'll get.

I think you'd get more volume but also more quack and non linearity from the piezo.

Since people in the US have now Tonedexters. It is a not a real problem

Here is for example what I can get from my last homemade IR


Martin HD-28
1) DPA mic
2) TA Amulet (tone open)
3) TA Amulet + IR.

I don't match exactly the mic take but it is not ridiculous. I have other IRs with a tone more "close", "less airy" that gets closer to the mic overall tone.

But when playing on an amp, neither is better or worse.

Cuki

Hi Cuki, I listened to this soundfile in the other thread and commented that your Martin HD-28 Trance +IR sounds like a mic'ed Martin HD-28 complete with a bit of bass-boom. Mighty Fine! I agree that the ToneDexter is a wonderful device for toneshaping.