The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 08-26-2017, 02:17 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
I've installed the #54 with MiSi. All I can say is "wow." Several of us listened to the samples. I'll post them once they are ready. We actually though the file labels were wrong between the dynamic mic and direct recording through a flat mixer setup. It was very good.

The down sides are predictable for something this microphonic: potential for feedback and handling noise. It's basically operating as a mic, though it is a pickup.

This is. It a good solution for people in loud bands or who play bars. But, if you play moderate volume, or solo gigs, you should give it try.

The MiSi solves the problems that the PUTW#54 presented in the past. It gives enough gain (still less than most commercially available systems) buffers and matches impedance well.

There is basically no weight put in the guitar and requires no batteries.

I have to gig it before making a recommendation. I need to see if feedback will be an issue. But, so far, it's impressive.

David
Wasn't there an issue with these pickups coming loose and causing distortion? That would be my only concern. The Misi set up seems to be awesome and I remember listening to Doug Young's pickup samples and always finding the PUTW systems to sound the best.

Out of curiosity, it looks as though PUTW offers the Dynamic Trio #54 with a UST as active or with the Misi set up. You can also get it mono or stereo. I wonder if this pickup would give just enough UST in order to make the system a little more stage friendly for those who need a bit more volume.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:10 PM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Salem, Or.
Posts: 2,027
Default

I remember back in the day when PUTW was the latest great thing. I didn't own one of them but I thought my buddies guitar sounded great with it but I was a ignorant schmuck at the time. I do remember his coming loose and flopping into his guitar. That happened to my Anthem system before too. Seems to me it needs to be a better adhesive. Is there a sanding and alcohol prep required with that pickup?
__________________
Vancebo
Husband of One, Father of Two
Worship Leader, Music Teacher
Oregon Duck Fan
Guitars by: Collings, Bourgeois, Taylor
Pickups by: Dazzo
Preamps by: Sunnaudio
Amps by: Bose (S1)
Grateful
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:40 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default New pickup systems incoming...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancebo View Post
I remember back in the day when PUTW was the latest great thing. I didn't own one of them but I thought my buddies guitar sounded great with it but I was a ignorant schmuck at the time. I do remember his coming loose and flopping into his guitar. That happened to my Anthem system before too. Seems to me it needs to be a better adhesive. Is there a sanding and alcohol prep required with that pickup?

I did the naphtha cleaning in advance and the bridge plate was smooth. I'm hopeful that he adhesive holds. If not, my plan is to glue them in. One of our members had his luthier glue with superglue and reports great results. The only concern I have right now is adhesion. And, that concern is primarily because I don't know what to expect. Fingers remaining crossed.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."

Last edited by martingitdave; 08-26-2017 at 06:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-26-2017, 06:49 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
I did the naphtha cleaning in advance and the bridge plate was smooth. I'm hopeful that he adhesive holds. If not, my plan is to glue them in. One of our members had his luthier glue with superglue and reports great results. The only concern I have right now is adhesion. And, that concern is primarily because I don't know what to expect. Fingers remaining crossed.
David,

It's a good idea to lightly sand the bridgeplate where the transducers will be located with a 150 grit adhesive-backed paper on a small sanding block or on the broadside of a 9-volt battery. This will slightly rough-up the surface of the bridgeplate and assure the best bond possible. This advice goes against my own newly imposed personal directive not to offer advice on installation procedures or on products with which I have experience. Too many players have gotten burned by my Trance products recommendations that I'm now gun-shy about sharing anything about anything.
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-26-2017, 09:56 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default

Thanks Ken! I appreciate the advice. I have my fingers crossed the adhesive holds. Otherwise, it's superglue for me.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-28-2017, 08:43 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default

First update in post #1.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-28-2017, 09:55 AM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
First update in post #1.
They're great sounding pickups, I'm glad it's working for you! A soundhole cover is probably sufficient to reduce feedback risk.

I was walking the dogs yesterday and even had the thought cross my mind that, perhaps, I should go back to PUTW and use the Dynamic-Trio w/my Baggs MixPro. That would provide enough gain to get it to my Tonebone PZ Deluxe which would EQ it and would help me manage any feedback. But, I keep coming back to the "what if?" scenarios of "what if my preamp fails?" or "what if the gig has me plug straight into the board?" and all those things that keep me thinking my LB6 is my safest option but I would definitely consider PUTW again.
__________________
Alvarez MC90
Guild GAD-50 w/Seymour Duncan Mag Mic
Taylor 352ce
Taylor 514ce

Zoom AC3

https://linktr.ee/erikjmusic
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:35 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default New pickup systems incoming...

Erik,

There seems to be a trade off between the reliability and predictability of an under-saddle pickup and the tone of some of the boutique sound board transducers. The boutique options like PUTW, Trance, Dazzo etc. can sound great, superb even, but can be difficult to select, install and tweak. The placement and possibilities are seemingly endless. The UST is simple, effective and WYSIWYG. The K&K tries to be somewhere in the middle.

For a daily workhorse gig guitar I would likely only use a SBT that I can glue in and forget. If you're a star, you can afford a guitar tech to fiddle with stuff endlessly to get the best possible stage tone. Otherwise, it's probably best to be simple.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-28-2017, 01:11 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default

Sample "recording" added to post #1.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-28-2017, 01:33 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Sample "recording" added to post #1.
Really impressive and kind of exciting that a minimally invasive (no CA glue, no battery, no drilling into the saddle slot, nothing taking much space) simple (no second source mic, no DSP, no fancy EQ, no compression) system can sound that good. The next steps are a quiet and a noisy gig.
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-28-2017, 02:36 PM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
Really impressive and kind of exciting that a minimally invasive (no CA glue, no battery, no drilling into the saddle slot, nothing taking much space) simple (no second source mic, no DSP, no fancy EQ, no compression) system can sound that good. The next steps are a quiet and a noisy gig.
Thanks Jon! That's my thought. It has to be tested. I'm not a working musician as you guys know. My gigs are usually consist of folk club activities, benefit concerts, senior centers, and charity events. I do a rock show once a year. So, it will take a me a little while to test it under the conditions that a working musician might encounter in a given week. But, I'll update as I go.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-28-2017, 10:43 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Sample "recording" added to post #1.
That sounds Mighty Fine, David!
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-29-2017, 06:53 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
That sounds Mighty Fine, David!

Thank you Ken! It's definitely growing on me.
__________________
"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday."
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-29-2017, 09:30 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,340
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Thank you Ken! It's definitely growing on me.
David,

Being that the PUTW #54 transducers are installed away from being directly under the saddle area of the bridgeplate accounts for the lack of harshness of the tone of your new system. As I've mentioned before on AGF, back in the early 1980s, I started gluing the Shadow single-metal-disk, piezo pickups to both the rear of the bridgeplate (Martin D-18), and also directly on the underside of the guitar's top just off the rear of the bridgeplate (Martin HD-28 which didn't have enough room on bridgeplate behind the bridgepins). Both Martin positionings were on a centerline between the 3rd and 4th strings and resulted in no string-volume imbalance. Buffering the output of the 1-inch-diameter Shadow through an MXR Micro Amp pedal (10 MOhm) would yield a rather mic-like amplified tone, especially when routing the output through a Furman three-band, fully-parametric, rack-mount equalizer. The placement of your PUTW #54 dual strips, one along each side the X-brace, is similar to where the FRAP IT and other stick-on piezo pickups were recommended to be mounted back in the old days. Ovation research found that installing a pickup at the bridge-saddle position gave the most gain-before-feedback compared to other mounting positions and that accounts for every guitar maker and pickup builder henceforth offering a UST system. I did find that although my Shadow mounting positions gave a nice warm tone, the system was quite prone to feedback, especially in acoustically lively rooms. You may find that this will be the case with your PUTW #54 system but depending on the type of venues you play, especially those with carpeting and drapery, it may not be much of a concern. Please keep us posted on your experiences with your new system.
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Republic Duolian/Schatten NR-2

Last edited by SpruceTop; 08-29-2017 at 10:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-29-2017, 09:58 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: France
Posts: 3,005
Default

Hi Ken

Does it mean I'll get Dave's tone by placing the Amulet at PUTW #54 positions?

Gary said that Jackson Browne has his amulet installed being the bridge pins.

Cuki
__________________
Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003)
Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999)
Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet
Yamaha FGX-412 (1998)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
http://acousticir.free.fr/
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=