Handgun question

[Oldguy64]

When considering caliber, you have to consider the smallest, weakest person that will be firing that weapon.
What can they handle? If you are careful about garbage management, and food storage, the bears should leave you be.

The two legged varmints aren't as smart.

Also, if you aren't comfortable with the possibility that you may have to use deadly force to protect yourself and your family, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE GET A GUN.

If you are prepared to shoot to survive, remember your safety zone is 20 feet.
Yes, it sounds like a long distance. But remember it takes a reasonably healthy person around 15 seconds, or less to cover 100 yards.
20 feet is not quite 7% of that time and distance. If you do the math, and then take reaction time, and startle reflex into account...that 20 feet seems like too darn close!

So, in a place where you have room, dogs. A big well trained dog will alert you. Then it will protect you.
Even if you have a land line for your phone, you NEED A CELL PHONE. Any one smart enough, and brave enough to come after you on your house, is smart enough to try to cut your lines of communication.
Whether it is to disable any alarm, or to keep you from calling help.
It sounds like "bunker" mentality. But this world is getting crazy. If you intend to protect yourself, you must be fully prepared for the worst case.
And remember, if you prevail, you'll need to call help for your intruder.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

Whatever you decide, remember gun locks and a gun safe.

Aside from all the other bad information in that post...

Don't forget to put a night light on your safe, so you can get the gun out in a hurry when you need it.

[ewalling]

Has anyone here ever actually dealt with an intruder or, god forbid, shot one? There seems to be an enormous amount of theoretical advice being given with very little, in fact no, accounts of what it really is like to have the experience of an intruder coming up the stairs and the homeowner with a gun or a shovel or a rolling pin in hand ready to dispatch him.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by ewalling

Has anyone here ever actually dealt with an intruder...

Yes. I had a Beretta in hand, controlling the situation, until the police arrived.

The "alleged" criminal broke into the apartment upstairs and tried to rape a woman. I woke up when I heard her fighting and screaming. I got my pistol, got her out of her apartment and into mine, and directed her to call 911.

Police arrived and took over the scene.

No, I didn't have sufficient justification to shoot - I was not in danger. But after seeing her beat and bloodied, I was ready to, if he had offered to attack me.

Originally Posted by ewalling

Has anyone here ever actually dealt with an intruder or, god forbid, shot one? There seems to be an enormous amount of theoretical advice being given with very little, in fact no, accounts of what it really is like to have the experience of an intruder coming up the stairs with a gun or a shovel or a rolling pin in hand ready to dispatch him.

What is your advice, Ewall?

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

Yes. I had a Beretta in hand, controlling the situation, until the police arrived.

The "alleged" criminal broke into the apartment upstairs and tried to rape a woman. I woke up when I heard her fighting and screaming. I got my pistol, got her out of her apartment and into mine, and directed her to call 911.

Police arrived and took over the scene.

No, I didn't have sufficient justification to shoot - I was not in danger. But after seeing her beat and bloodied, I was ready to, if he had offered to attack me.

Good one, TG, good level headed approach.

My wife did have an intruder years ago at night while I was at work. She went into the kids' room, barricaded the door and had the .357 in hand while she called 911. The operator stayed with her until the police arrived, which sent the BG out the back, never to be found. She put the gun down when the operator told her the police were there. Good outcome for all, particularly the BG, whose day would not have ended well at all if he'd attemped to get past her barricade.

[callouses]

Originally Posted by ewalling

Has anyone here ever actually dealt with an intruder or, god forbid, shot one? There seems to be an enormous amount of theoretical advice being given with very little, in fact no, accounts of what it really is like to have the experience of an intruder coming up the stairs with a gun or a shovel or a rolling pin in hand ready to dispatch him.

yes. Years ago I was at a friends house one night, and he had left the living room for several minutes. When he came back in, he handed me a shotgun and said lets go I have burglers in my garage....I must tell you that there is no more sickening feeling than having to hold a gun on another human being. I would not suggest it for anyone. If you imagine that you would be ok with it, talk to me after you've done it. I thank God that the cops showed up quickly. The advice given by almost everyone so far is very sound. I don't think anyone would want to live with the aftermath of having to take a human life. War is different, I've done that too. Self defense is just necessary sometimes as well, and it may be coming to that, not just in America, but worldwide. We all have a stake in this. The best advise I've seen so far is if you aren't sure you could do it, do not own a gun. The reason why is that an experienced criminal dould take it away from you and use it against you. Generally, they are more desperate than you, or they wouldn't be in your place to begin with. Guns are not toys. Get training, practice often, build up confidence, have more respect for your own life than the person trying to hurt you...you have as much right to life as they do. The minute you pick up a gun, don't EVER point it at someone unless you are fully willing to use it.

[Teleman52]

Originally Posted by ewalling

Has anyone here ever actually dealt with an intruder or, god forbid, shot one? There seems to be an enormous amount of theoretical advice being given with very little, in fact no, accounts of what it really is like to have the experience of an intruder coming up the stairs with a gun or a shovel or a rolling pin in hand ready to dispatch him.

I dont think you necessarily have to have first hand experience with handling an intruder in the home. I think policemen/women and military men/women have the most informed opinion on this subject.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by A-Mac

What is your advice, Ewall?

Perhaps some of the posts need to be a little less 'assured'. I think none of us can really know how we might react when confronted by a life-and-death situation like this. I also think that the advice on how effective this or that firearm may or may not be has to be tempered by adding that the advisor is making a guess, no matter how educated that guess might be. But first-hand experience does, at least, offer some insight into how someone like us fared during a home intrusion.

[EighthAveLocal]

If you're not sure whether or not you could pull the trigger on someone trying to invade your home and possibly hurt you or your family, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun in the first place.

Your fight or flight instincts are going to kick in and you better have better aim than the intruder.

My vote is a shotgun but if you're set on a handgun for your wife and yourself, I would go with a .357 - .45. Anything less may not be so effective.

[kydave]

Originally Posted by ewalling

Has anyone here ever actually dealt with an intruder or, god forbid, shot one? There seems to be an enormous amount of theoretical advice being given with very little, in fact no, accounts of what it really is like to have the experience of an intruder coming up the stairs and the homeowner with a gun or a shovel or a rolling pin in hand ready to dispatch him.

No I have not, but the real possibilities exist and I'd rather be trained and prepared than not.

Examples from Sept & Aug.

September 19, 2014
Intruder on federal probation stopped by resident, KTLA, Los Angeles, Calif. 09/16/14, Post-Periodical, San Fernando, Calif. 09/16/14
A man on federal probation entered a home in Van Nuys, Calif. and attacked the homeowner. The homeowner retrieved a handgun and shot the criminal, halting the altercation. Following a hospitalization to treat the gunshot wound, the intruder was charged with assault with a deadly weapon.

September 11, 2014
Homeowner scares off burglars, The Press-Enterprise, Riverside County, Calif. 09/08/14
A man was at home in Rancho Cucamonga, Calif. when a group of burglars knocked at the door. When the homeowner didn’t respond, the thieves attempted to break-in through a window. The homeowner responded by firing at one of the criminals, missing, but prompting the burglars to flee.

September 9, 2014
Homeowner holds intruder at gunpoint until police arrive, The Tampa Bay Times, Tampa Bay, Fla. 09/03/14
Around 4:30 a.m., Joseph Cihak, a homeowner in St. Petersburg, Fla., awakened and went to use the bathroom. While heading to the bathroom, Cihak came upon an intruder armed with a knife. Cihak was armed with a gun at the time and fired at the criminal twice before his gun malfunctioned. Cihak retrieved another gun and captured the unharmed home invader. As Cihak was holding the intruder for police, the criminal attempted to bargain with him. The burglar offered to mow Cihak’s lawn if he was allowed to go free. The ploy didn’t work and now the criminal is facing a charge of armed burglary.

September 5, 2014
Woman holds home invader for police, The Omaha World-Herald, Omaha, Neb. 09/02/14
Barbara Haley was at home in Omaha, Neb. when she was awakened by her dog barking. Suspicious, Haley retrieved a .45-caliber pistol and went to investigate. Initially, Haley didn’t find anyone in the home and went back to bed. However, another noise roused Haley again, at which point she discovered an intruder in a bedroom closet. Haley ordered the man to stay still and held him at gunpoint in the closet until police arrived. Following the incident, Haley told a local media outlet, “I’m glad I had that gun… And I’m thinking they (burglars) won’t try this again anytime soon.”

August 29, 2014
Clerk chases off armed robber, WJCL, Savannah, Ga. 08/25/14
Clerk Rick Patel was working at a Shell Food Mart in Claxton, Ga. when a hooded man approached the counter and attempted to rob the store at gunpoint. Patel responded by retrieving a pistol, which then he used to chase the criminal out of the store. Police suspect the hooded man has committed several other armed robberies. Following the incident, Patel told Savannah’s WJCL, “I don’t like to shoot nobody but when it comes to my life I would. And thank God I didn’t get hurt, I didn’t kill him, otherwise I would have regretted but hey, you made the choice, regrets happen.” In recent years, some convenience store clerks have faced discipline following an act of armed self-defense. In a welcome departure from these instances, the owner of Patel’s store told the TV station, “I’m really proud. Whatever he did I’d like if everybody started doing it that way, robbery will be stopped, especially for convenience stores.”

August 27, 2014
World War II veteran stops armed robber, The Palm Beach Post, Palm Beach, Fla. 08/25/14
89-Year-old Arthur Lewis was working at his store, the Jewelry Exchange, in Palm Beach County, Fla. when a man entered the shop and pretended to need his watch fixed. The man then drew a gun and attempted to rob Lewis. Lewis responded to the threat by grasping the criminal’s firearm and drawing a pistol. After a physical altercation, Lewis shot the robber, which prompted the thief to flee. Police caught up with the robber when his getaway driver sought police assistance for the wounded criminal. The armed robber targeted the wrong person. Lewis is a veteran of World War II, and previously defended himself against an attempted armed robbery in 2010.

August 26, 2014
Armed citizen halts pair of armed robbers, The Times Leader, Wilkes Barre, Pa. 08/24/14
A man was walking down a street late at night in Wilkes-Barre, Pa. when a pair of armed criminals attempted to rob him. The man responded to the threat by drawing a gun and grabbing the firearm one of the robbers was holding, prompting the thieves to flee.

August 21, 2014
Resident fights off three home invaders, KRQE, Albuquerque, N.M. 08/20/14
A man was asleep at home in Albuquerque, N.M. when a trio of armed robbers attempted to gain entry to the residence by claiming that they were police. The criminals ultimately broke down the door and got inside the home. The resident responded by retrieving a gun and firing at the home invaders, striking and killing one, and wounding another. The surviving intruders fled the home, but were later captured by police. The surviving home invaders have been charged with the murder of their accomplice. Albequerque Police Department Public Information Officer Tanner Tixier shared some advice for would be intruders with local media outlet KRQE, stating, “What people need to understand is if you join your buddy to go commit a felony and your buddy dies you can be the one who gets charged with murder.”

August 20, 2014
Neighbors foil carjacker, KTVK, Phoenix, Ariz. 08/15/14
A man approached a woman in her vehicle in Phoenix, Ariz. and asked if he could use her phone. When the woman refused, the man dragged her from the vehicle. A woman who lives nearby noticed the situation and went to investigate. While the neighbor was near the car, the carjacker accelerated, injuring her. The neighbor’s husband responded by firing at the carjacker, striking him. The wounded carjacker fled the scene, but was captured a short time later, after he crashed the stolen vehicle. The carjacker died after being taken to a hospital.

August 14, 2014
Resident fights off crew of armed robbers, KDFW, Dallas, Texas, 08/08/14
Four men, at least some of whom were armed with guns, broke into an apartment in Garland, Texas. The resident responded by retrieving a gun and firing at the criminals, striking and killing one, and causing the rest to flee. Police suspect the deceased intruder also recently robbed a nearby convenience store.

August 12, 2014
Woman defends herself from burglar, WTVD, Raleigh, N.C. 08/07/14
Paige Ham was inside her home in Goldsboro, N.C. when she noticed that the lock had been taken off a storage shed in her back yard. Ham retrieved a gun and went to investigate. While she was investigating, a man came out of the shed and moved towards her. Ham responded by shooting the burglar. According to news reports, the thief’s condition is not life-threatening. Additionally, Wayne County Sheriff’s officials have made clear that Ham will not be charged.

August 8, 2014
80-year-old woman with revolver defends home, WTVT, Tampa Bay, Fla. 08/01/14
80-year-old NJ Logan was recovering from hip surgery at home in Holmes Beach, Fla. when she became aware of an intrusion. Logan responded by retrieving a revolver, calling 9-1-1, and warning the intruder. According to Logan, while on the phone with police, she was told to “put the gun down,” to which she replied, “I’ll put the gun down when I see the police.” The intruder left the home without a direct confrontation. Following the incident, Logan told a local media outlet, “I believe in guns inside your house, because I don't think anybody has the right to break into your private domain. I'll definitely have the gun up there that is for sure.”

[HHP]

Originally Posted by ewalling

Perhaps some of the posts need to be a little less 'assured'. I think none of us can really know how we might react when confronted by a life-and-death situation like this. I also think that the advice on how effective this or that firearm may or may not be has to be tempered by adding that the advisor is making a guess, no matter how educated that guess might be. But first-hand experience does, at least, offer some insight into how someone like us fared during a home intrusion.

The one undeniable aspect of it is that it is high stress for you. That's why so many people suggest shotguns. The ability to use a handgun effectively is a skill that takes years. Add stress and you complicate it even more. There are reams of stories of assailants and defenders emptying handguns at each other at close range with neither being hit. With practice, a shotgun hits whatever you are looking at when you pull the trigger making it much better in high stress situations.

[Bingoccc]

I've dealt with home intruders a couple of times. Those situations were not life threatening and I didn't need a gun. The closest I ever came to using one when was years ago. I was a part-time LEO and three drunks decided they were going to take me out. The guy in the middle was swinging a large crowbar. Drawing was all the was needed to stop them but it could have been very bad for me if I hadn't.

[Oldguy64]

Most times, the presence of a gun, and the apparent willingness to use it is enough to halt most altercations.
I have drawn down and n folks while I was in the military.
It is a sickening feeling after the incident.
The idea that you might have ended someone. Totally horrid feeling.
Willingness to do it to insure I'm the one that goes home? Intact.

Over the years, I've learned upon being threatened, that my flight or fight response is geared toward fight. And I've experienced the tunnel vision, and time slowing.
I know that I'd really hate having to shoot someone. But I know that if I ever encounter a threat so great that I must shoot...I will shoot till the threat is no longer a danger...

[kydave]

Last time I'll say it:

At household ranges (20 feet or so) you will need to aim a shotgun almost as accurately as a rifle or handgun. The spread is not significant.

A shotgun is no easier to learn to shoot than any other firearm and possibly more difficult for the recoil shy and/or small person.

As a side note, if you shoot anyone who is much more than 20 feet away, you'd better have an excellent story for the DA.

As another side note - if you don't have small children or immature adults around, there is no reason to keep your defensive weapon locked away. It does you no good locked in a cabinet or safe & the BG isn't going to wait on you to get it.

IF you choose to keep a defensive gun - become intimately familiar with using it safely, keep it handy, keep it loaded.

IF you have to shoot, shoot until the target is no longer moving... no more, no less.

IF you're not prepared to do that, stick to the dogs and hope your police are fast... (right)

P.S. While I have tremendous respect for police in general, bear in mind that there are roughly (very ball-park, but with some backing) one million sworn law enforcement officers (people with powers of arrest) in the U.S. They shoot a couple thousand people a year, if that.

There are (conservatively) over 100 million households of gun owners in the U.S.

There are no national stats for either shootings by the police nor defensively by citizens (or stats on use of weapon defensively without shooting resulting), but do the math and figure out who likely has more experience. (hint: it is not law enforcement)