NFL Tackles Domestic Violence

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by ewalling

To my surprise, one of the two football scholarship guys I taught over the summer actually said this; that violent sports do predispose their players to aggression off the field. He also described the college football circuit as a 'lottery'; make it and you get rich. He was certainly no neanderthal.

This maps to my experience as a player as well. I don't know if players are more predisposed to violence, but I would be surprised if they're not to at least a small degree.

Chicken and egg though.

[zabdart]

Originally Posted by Fatstrat

I disagree. Anyone who believes this has obviously never played Football. Or probably any sport. It's obvious that you view football players as dimwitted neanderthals. And some of them probably are, But the majority are very well adjusted, college educated people who happen to have a talent for a football. There are far more players who don't get into any trouble, and live quiet peaceful lives off field, than there are that get the headlines for bad behavior.

Far from regarding football players as "dimwitted neandrathals" I have known many football players whose intelligence dwarfed my own. Let us not forget that Doug Flutie was a Rhodes Scholar and Roger Staubach graduated from the Naval Academy... and you don't get accepted there on your ablility to play football.
I'm just saying that the whole culture of football is one of agression, and if you've ever spent one day in football practice, you know this. Some people have real trouble controlling their emotions off the field... especially when such emotions are constantly favored as part of their "work."
Nobody's perfect, but you have to draw the line about what is socially acceptable behavior somewhere.

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by zabdart

Let us not forget that Doug Flutie was a Rhodes Scholar and Roger Staubach graduated from the Naval Academy...

I'm sincerely curious if there are any similar examples from the last 10-15 years or so. Those guys were around like 25 years ago.

[Fatstrat]

Originally Posted by Psalad

I'm sincerely curious if there are any similar examples from the last 10-15 years or so. Those guys were around like 25 years ago.

Good point.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Psalad

I'm sincerely curious if there are any similar examples from the last 10-15 years or so. Those guys were around like 25 years ago.

Steve young played until '99, so he kind of qualifies. Very smart guy.

The issue here, however, is aggression. You can be brilliant, but still be quite aggressive and violent. You can have control over your aggression, but lose it as the result of brain injury (and not necessarily CTE as the result of multiple injuries; you can experienced greater impulsivity/experience diminished self-restraint after one head trauma, depending upon the specific details).

Sure, some tend to associate the liking of intense contact sports with being a dimwit or a "Neanderthal", and some guys live up to that stereotype. But it is irrelevant, actually.

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Sure, some tend to associate the liking of intense contact sports with being a dimwit or a "Neanderthal", and some guys live up to that stereotype. But it is irrelevant, actually.

Ya.. I thought intelligence was irrelevant to the discussion as well. I remain curious if there are any people of exceptional intelligence in today's NFL. With the information about CTE that has come out in the last decade, it would make me very surprised if they didn't find a different sport. But that might just be my own bias.

[mjz]

The Wonderlic test is as close as the NFL gets to testing IQ. It's an abridged 50 point version of the IQ test. There have been some very high test scores of late.

A 10 is considered literate. I think an 18 is average for the general pop.
Most NFL players score in the 20s -- or at least a bit above average.

Ryan Fitzpatrick (Harvard) is reported to have scored a 48
As Did Benjamin Watson of the Bengals,and Kevin Curtis formerly of the Eagles.

Another Eagle -- Mike Mamula ( a total NFL bust) scored a 49

And there have been more than a few who scored a perfect 50.

Disclosure: I looked this up on Bleacher report.

Of course there have also been a lot of low scores, too.

max

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by mjz

The Wonderlic test is as close as the NFL gets to testing IQ. It's an abridged 50 point version of the IQ test. There have been some very high test scores of late.

A 10 is considered literate. I think an 18 is average for the general pop.
Most NFL players score in the 20s -- or at least a bit above average.

Ryan Fitzpatrick (Harvard) is reported to have scored a 48
As Did Benjamin Watson of the Bengals,and Kevin Curtis formerly of the Eagles.

Another Eagle -- Mike Mamula ( a total NFL bust) scored a 49

And there have been more than a few who scored a perfect 50.

Disclosure: I looked this up on Bleacher report.

Of course there have also been a lot of low scores, too.

max

Cool! Interesting info. While the Wonderlic is not the most highly regarded intelligence test, it is certainly sufficient to answer the question posed: whether there are highly intelligent NFL players in recent years.

[grampa]

I think domestic violence is tackling the NFL.

I'm shocked to learn that NFL players can be provoked to violence.

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Sure, some tend to associate the liking of intense contact sports with being a dimwit or a "Neanderthal", and some guys live up to that stereotype. But it is irrelevant, actually.

Well, there are also those people who have suffered so much brain damage, that they have reduced function - and keep at it, because that's what they do. I had a similar conversation with an ex-pro soccer player. He knows that he has suffered considerable damage from heading the ball for so many years. But he kept at it because he had trained all his life to do that. Not much call for an ex-soccer player that doesn't know anything beyond soccer.

[Psalad]

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

Well, there are also those people who have suffered so much brain damage, that they have reduced function - and keep at it, because that's what they do. I had a similar conversation with an ex-pro soccer player. He knows that he has suffered considerable damage from heading the ball for so many years. But he kept at it because he had trained all his life to do that. Not much call for an ex-soccer player that doesn't know anything beyond soccer.

That is actually a very good point that people forget... how prevalent is CTE in soccer players? Probably quite high, as headers come in pretty hard.

[zabdart]

I remember when Bill Cosby parodied a then-popular TV commercial on "The Cosby Show" in an episode when his son wanted to try out for his high school football team. Cosby took and egg and said: "Look! This is your head." Then he took the egg and cracked it into a frying pan and said: "This is your head -- with your brain still in it -- playing football!"
A long time ago, somebody explained to me that "If you play baseball, you might get hurt. If you play football, you will get hurt." And that's just physically. All sports teach you to be aggressive as an approach to playing the game. In football, aggression IS the game.

[Teleman52]

The NFL cannot stop domestic violence in their league anymore than the president can stop domestic violence in the country.

The fact is that the incidence of domestic violence in the NFL is lower than that of the rest of the country percentage wise. The NFL is just a microcosm showing us a bigger problem with our society at large, not saying that's a bad thing. I just think the media is trying to sensationalize this and is being a little hard on the NFL and its commisioner

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by Teleman52

The NFL cannot stop domestic violence in their league anymore than the president can stop domestic violence in the country.

The fact is that the incidence of domestic violence is lower than that of the rest of the country percentage wise.

Well, if you are going to throw "facts" into the mix. Steve Almond, in "Against Football: A Reluctant Fan's Manifesto", cites a spike in domestic violence reports on days when NFL games are on television. He observss that fans are more likely to engage in domestic violence after merely watching a football game.

Yes, the league does have an effect on the nation. Maybe they could strive to make it a positive one.