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Old 12-26-2017, 08:58 AM
JimmyJeff1 JimmyJeff1 is offline
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Default Starter jazz guitar and amp recommendations

I'm going to start exploring jazz this year. I'm an early intermediate with a standard configuration late 90s MIM Strat and a Vox AC4C1-12. I'd rather have a few versatile instruments than several niche ones. I like the Gibson/Gretch scale length because I've got small hands and haven't been playing long enough to develop great reach. I've thought about modifying the Strat to HSS, but wouldn't be opposed to an Epiphone ES 335 or something like that which has applications beyond jazz. I like the Vox, but am not opposed to a SS or modeling amp with similar output because, again, I'd rather have a few versatile items.

I know I need to explore with my own hands and ears, but any thoughts that help narrow the field would be much appreciated. Thanks!

JJ1

Last edited by JimmyJeff1; 12-26-2017 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:11 AM
Chickee Chickee is offline
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I am in total agreement with your thoughts on any model of Epiphone 335. Also worth a look are the Ibanez Artcore series semi hollow lineup. Really easy playing and good bang for the buck. Amplifier is a no brainer for what you want to play. Roland Jazz Chorus 40, or JC22 for strictly bedroom playing.
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Old 12-26-2017, 01:11 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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While some jazz genres have sound/tone/timbre expectations, jazz is more about vocabulary and approach than the right guitar.

From your post, I think you're thinking about the neck as you approach the jazz vocabulary. That sounds valid. Yes, jazz chords can challenge your fretting hands' reach. In my case, my hands and brain have a hard time meeting the needs of the jazz vocabulary, so I emphasize with your concerns. Shorter scale can help a little, and if you want to go with fatter, higher tension flat-wound strings, the shorter scale helps there too.

I think you may want to try some necks out to see what fits your hand best. I've been pleased with two Epiphone semi-hollow guitars in this past year or so: the 335 Pro and the 339 P90 Pro. My Epi 335 Pro came with a no-issues neck, my 339 P90 Pro had a couple of high frets which I had to dress myself to get decent action without buzzes. Mail order, your luck of the draw could be different. The larger body Epi 335 Pro has more noticeable body resonance played clean at low volumes. The P90 pickups in the 339 Pro have great character and respond well with different timbres depending on how one plays the strings and uses the volume knob. The humbuckers on the 335 Pro are decent, and they can be split for a different tonality. The necks themselves feel identical in profile and design.

Either guitar is versatile. Either guitar could get a "suddenly it's 1959" kind of hard bop jazz sound with the appropriate chops. Either guitar could cover various rock sounds well too with the right amp and effects. Even higher gain, overdrive sounds can work with these designs. Either would sound different than your Strat.

I predict someone will be here to suggest Gretsch's Electromatic line of true hollow-bodies. I'll agree. It's a bit beefier neck (which I like). My neck needed no work. The Gretsch sound is not exactly the traditional, hard-bop style that I love sound-wise, but played with skill no one should care. Played clean at low volumes the big body resonance is there. You can get Chet Atkins style electric finger picking sounding great on one if that's your style (alas not mine--because, talent). Certain kinds of Sixties rock sounds are there too: Beatles, Buffalo Springfield, even the Velvet Underground first-two-albums style chug. Other kinds of things, like overdrive-fueled blues-rock are just not there.

A completely off-the-wall suggestion you'll hear nowhere else: try a Fender Jaguar. They have a 24" scale that make some reaches more do-able for me. The original design Jaguar bridges are a bit of a puzzle for modern techs who often have no idea how to make them work. But with the right neck angle (bolt-on neck, one can shim to get it) and heavier strings (like they were designed to use) and knowledge of the bridge's design (it's supposed to move/rock, and you can flip it around to get the intonation range if needed). Some modern models and some players replace the puzzling bridge, which is fine too. Not a traditional "jazz guitar" (only the trivia buffs will offer "Oh yeah, Joe Pass and the Synanon album") but the neck and/or the neck plus bridge combination can provide valid sounds for the jazz vocabulary. Modern indie rock and surf music come to mind when one sees a Jaguar. It is a bit of the "Fender sound," and I sometimes confuse it with a Strat or Tele on my recordings, but it is slightly different none-the-less. Strats don't conventionally have the neck/bridge PU combination, and the bridge pickup has more punch than the typical single-coil Strat bridge PU.


There's a Squier Jaguar version that's inexpensive and will probably take some setup work to get playing smoothly--but then, budgeting for a good setup is the first thing you should do when thinking about a guitar to learn jazz on, regardless on which model you select. It's a thinner and narrower neck, which is not my preference, but preferences in this matter differ.

If this is TLDNR: try a Epi 339 P90 Pro.
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Last edited by FrankHudson; 12-26-2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:05 PM
frankhond frankhond is offline
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The Roland jazz chorus is a ”standard” in some situations but also a terribly boring one-trick amp.

Jazz these days can be so much. People play it on hollowbodies, telecasters, strats and les pauls (Les Paul used a les paul).

I would suggest a versatile modeling amp like the Helix or Blackstar or the new Fender mustang gt... or if you are a bedroom player, I can’t recommend Yamaha THR10C or Vox adio highly enough (I have a THR10C and the Vox is similar).

To start with, if you like the strat, just play that through some nice fat tube model, something Matchless-like, and learn to ride the volume knob on the guitar together with pick dynamics to get a clean sound with various degrees of bite.

Check out Bill Frisell for telecaster jazz. My personal favorite for jazz type of sound is a mongrel thinline tele from MJT with Lundgren BJFE pickups. Ultra comfortable and light.

To investigate if shorter scale would work for you, put a capo on the second fret. I used to own a les paul and its shorter scale made very little difference in terms of chord difficulty.

What did make a difference was 9 gauge strings. For some reason jazzers often insist on heavy strings... but with the right amp settings, I get nice fat tones with less work. Maybe you need fat strings if you play a Jazz Chorus...
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Old 12-26-2017, 03:12 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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I'm a big fan of ES335 style guitars. They are very, very versatile. I would start with the amp you have. An ES335 will sound great through that amp. If you decide, after some time and experience, that you want a different amp for Jazz, then go for it.
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Old 12-26-2017, 05:03 PM
JimmyJeff1 JimmyJeff1 is offline
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Thanks to all for the input thus far. Much appreciated. JJ1
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:44 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyJeff1 View Post
...I'd rather have a few versatile instruments than several niche ones. I like the Gibson/Gretsch scale length because I've got small hands and haven't been playing long enough to develop great reach...wouldn't be opposed to an Epiphone ES 335 or something like that which has applications beyond jazz. I like the Vox, but am not opposed to a SS or modeling amp with similar output because, again, I'd rather have a few versatile items...
In order:
  • Since Frank already recommended the Gretsch Electromatics I won't elaborate too much further, except to say that I'd go with the Korean-made 5400-Series full-hollowbodies (single- or double-cut) if you're looking for jazz tones with the ability to cross genres if need be; QC and playability are head, shoulders, and navel above their Pac-Rim competition (not to mention many of the vintage Brooklyn originals), and the extra cost over and above the Chinese/Indonesian 2500-Series is money well spent...
  • In a similar price range as the top MIK Electromatics is the Godin CW II, a dual P-90 single-cut full-hollow instrument in the mold of the early-50's ES-175. While it's an excellent jazz box (TMK Tony Bennett's guitarist has been using one on tour for a while) it'll also get you some nice country, blues, rockabilly, and roots tones as well depending on your setup - the ultra-thin body woods (about half the thickness of a typical laminated archtop - weighs about as much as a Seagull mini-jumbo and feels much the same on the strap) give it a lively, airy, Gretsch-like response, unlike the "thud and mud" associated with many similar instruments; this one's a staple in my stable, and between it and a '16 Gretsch E-matic 5622T-CB I can cover all but the highest-volume situations...
  • I seem to have developed a certain notoriety around here for recommending the Bugera V22 1x12" combo as the amp of choice; simply put, IME you're not going to find a tube amp with a similar combination of tone, features, power, and versatility for anywhere near the extremely reasonable price (under $400 - well under now, during holiday coupon season) - if you can, tell me what it is and I'll gladly buy it - and if you search this subforum you'll find several other very happy owners. You're already accustomed to the sound of a low-watt EL84-powered 1x12" amp; this one gives you the additional clean headroom/dynamic range you need for jazz, as well as a broad variety of other useful tones (modelers - we don't need no stinkin' modelers... ) and the ability to power down to practice levels with no loss of headroom or tone - very reminiscent of a pre-Top Boost Vox in triode mode, BTW, which should be right up your alley. It's also a great platform for easy DIY mods if/when you want to fine-tune it to your style/instruments; should you decide to go this route I can PM you the mods I performed on mine, which will not only give you a more jazz-oriented tonality (think mid-60's blue-check Ampeg Gemini II/B-12XT) but provide enough additional headroom and output to cover a 600-700 seat house, clean as you need or dirty as you want...
Hope this helps...
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:22 PM
Steel and wood Steel and wood is offline
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Samick Greg Bennett archtops and thinline semis are some of the best value guitars out there and you could probably pair it up with a Roland solid state amp. (No point in getting a tube amp).
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:34 PM
rdawsoniii rdawsoniii is offline
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I second Steve’s recommendation of the Godin Kingpin II. I have one, it is just a fun guitar. I have yet to have anyone play it and not be impressed. You can get just about any style out of it except probably metal.

As a jazz box, the Guild X-175 Manhattan gets good reviews.

I also think you could do a lot worse than the Bugera V-22. I don’t own one, but I have the V-5. Bugera’s are amazing amps for the price.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:06 PM
Psyclone Psyclone is offline
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Stay on course with the strat and the little Vox. Back off the tone control on the strat, adjust amp to loudest clean volume.
Spend $ saved on new rig for lessons.

I know this is probably not the most exciting reply here, but if I had the chance to do things over again I would devote much more of my resources to learning.
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Old 12-28-2017, 07:59 AM
JimmyJeff1 JimmyJeff1 is offline
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[QUOTE=Psyclone;5582159]Stay on course with the strat and the little Vox. Back off the tone control on the strat, adjust amp to loudest clean volume.
Spend $ saved on new rig for lessons.

I know this is probably not the most exciting reply here, but if I had the chance to do things over again I would devote much more of my resources

Yep, your last statement is one of the primary reasons I asked and am trying to settle on a few versatile items overall. Thanks!
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Old 12-28-2017, 08:01 AM
JimmyJeff1 JimmyJeff1 is offline
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Thanks to all who have responded this far and especially to Frank and Steve for the detailed input.
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