Carbon Fiber Tuners

J.R. Rogers · #1 08-08-2016, 05:46 PM

Another member posted these in the General Acoustic section (thanks, Tom-Acousticado) so this post isn't original but I love the new CF tuners from Gotoh. Has anyone tried these yet or seen them in person? The weight is only 55.2g/side compared with 75g+ for the classic ones. I have to say they look really nice.

JR

ukejon · #2 08-08-2016, 09:32 PM

Very cool idea....and nice looking.

Oleg · #3 08-08-2016, 09:40 PM

Does anyone think this would be a noticeable weight difference for a RainSong Smokey? Because when standing, the Smokey is very head-heavy.

Acousticado · #4 08-10-2016, 09:23 PM

Hi J.R., et al.

In the thread that J.R. references, a more recent post includes a link to an Italian company called Heart Sound that makes all-CF 1:21 ratio tuning machines weighing only 42 grams per set of 6! I hope these tuners are the real deal in terms of quality and strength. The design also allows for a simple string winding, sort of locking string approach on the tuner post. Here's the link and an image. http://heart-sound.com/en/products/g...ning-machines/

Captain Jim · #5 08-10-2016, 10:23 PM

Two holes on the post - great idea!

Seems that someone would have thought of that a long time ago... but, I don't get out much.

ac · #6 08-11-2016, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Hi J.R., et al.

In the thread that J.R. references, a more recent post includes a link to an Italian company called Heart Sound that makes all-CF 1:21 ratio tuning machines weighing only 42 grams per set of 6! I hope these tuners are the real deal in terms of quality and strength. The design also allows for a simple string winding, sort of locking string approach on the tuner post. Here's the link and an image. http://heart-sound.com/en/products/g...ning-machines/

Great find!

1:21 and all 6 weigh a about the same as a single Gotoh tuner. That's a huge weight reduction.

I wonder how smooth they are compared to Gotoh and other top makers?

Acousticado · #7 08-11-2016, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac

Great find!

1:21 and all 6 weigh a about the same as a single Gotoh tuner. That's a huge weight reduction.

I wonder how smooth they are compared to Gotoh and other top makers?

Credit for the find goes to AGFer rlb9682 who posted about them in the other thread. I noted the great questions you have sent to the maker, Heart Sound, ac. I'm curious to know what they say.

The weight reduction is a game changer. To my knowledge, the Gotoh Stealths have been the lightest of all steel string tuners weighing 11.8 grams each, 70.8 grams for a set of 6. If these Heart Sounds are the real deal at only 42 grams for a set of 6, this is huge and seem very appropriate, particularly for CF guitars. My fingers are crossed that they'll turn out to have the desired accuracy and durability.

ac · #8 08-23-2016, 05:35 AM

There is another post in the General section regarding CF tuner. There I posted the following questions I emailed to the Italian manufacturers.
------------------
I also emailed them with a series of questions and asked them to provide more detailed information on their website.

1) Why not supply a small tube of lithium grease with the tuners? (they say NEVER to use oil for lubrication.)

Without, customers that don't have some handy, they will need to find the grease, trust it's pure with no petroleum grease mixed in, etc.

2) Is silicone grease is OK?

You don't supply any dimensions at all and I have an irregularly shaped headstock. It would help to know dimensions to be sure everything will fit properly.

3) Are the tuners designed to fit standard 10mm headstock holes?

Again, nothing mentioned on the website.

4) Are gears, tuning rod, and string rod carbon fiber?

5) Is there NO metal other than the screws?

6) Carbon fiber rubbing on carbon fiber: What is the expected wear/life span of the gears as the surface hardness is not the same as metal?

Thank you.
----------------------
They have just sent me a reply which I'm posting here (easier to find than in the General section.)

Some background, all Italians receive a full month vacation by law--with pay--so often in the summer it's hard to reach people in some companies.

This is a small startup company making the CF tuners.

Here is their reply which answered 'some' of the questions I asked. Real life durability is still a question that remains. However, the price point of these tuners, I think, will, for many, make it worth trying.
----------------------------------
Reply:

We were on vacation and we had a problem with our e-mail autoresponder.
I'm sorry for the delayed response and i apologise.

Here you can find all the answers:

1)We are working on that but we are a small startup and at the moment we don’t have the necessary volumes to have a special treatment from producers but we are treating.

2)Silicone or lithium grease is perfect for this kind of machines

3)Yeah they are designed to fit standards 10mm headstock holes and we’re producing a completely new manual to give customers all this informations.

4)It’s all made with a special blend that uses carbon fiber, teflon and other materials to prevent the usury, mantain the precision and improve the resistance

5)Yes, the only part that is made with metal are the screws

6)No, there is no metal. The use of silicone or lithium grease combined with the special blend can guarantee a long lasting product. We're made new tests to give customers much informations about it.

Attached i give you a small preview from our new manual with the machines' dimensions.

For any further assistance/clarification, do not hesitate to contact me.

Giorgio Patrini
Heart Sound Team
-------------------------------------
Below is a screenshot of the pdf they sent me:

Acousticado · #9 08-23-2016, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac

There is another post in the General section regarding CF tuner. There I posted the following questions I emailed to the Italian manufacturers.
------------------
I also emailed them with a series of questions and asked them to provide more detailed information on their website.

1) Why not supply a small tube of lithium grease with the tuners? (they say NEVER to use oil for lubrication.)

Without, customers that don't have some handy, they will need to find the grease, trust it's pure with no petroleum grease mixed in, etc.

2) Is silicone grease is OK?

You don't supply any dimensions at all and I have an irregularly shaped headstock. It would help to know dimensions to be sure everything will fit properly.

3) Are the tuners designed to fit standard 10mm headstock holes?

Again, nothing mentioned on the website.

4) Are gears, tuning rod, and string rod carbon fiber?

5) Is there NO metal other than the screws?

6) Carbon fiber rubbing on carbon fiber: What is the expected wear/life span of the gears as the surface hardness is not the same as metal?

Thank you.
----------------------
They have just sent me a reply which I'm posting here (easier to find than in the General section.)

Some background, all Italians receive a full month vacation by law--with pay--so often in the summer it's hard to reach people in some companies.

This is a small startup company making the CF tuners.

Here is their reply which answered 'some' of the questions I asked. Real life durability is still a question that remains. However, the price point of these tuners, I think, will, for many, make it worth trying.
----------------------------------
Reply:

We were on vacation and we had a problem with our e-mail autoresponder.
I'm sorry for the delayed response and i apologise.

Here you can find all the answers:

1)We are working on that but we are a small startup and at the moment we don’t have the necessary volumes to have a special treatment from producers but we are treating.

2)Silicone or lithium grease is perfect for this kind of machines

3)Yeah they are designed to fit standards 10mm headstock holes and we’re producing a completely new manual to give customers all this informations.

4)It’s all made with a special blend that uses carbon fiber, teflon and other materials to prevent the usury, mantain the precision and improve the resistance

5)Yes, the only part that is made with metal are the screws

6)No, there is no metal. The use of silicone or lithium grease combined with the special blend can guarantee a long lasting product. We're made new tests to give customers much informations about it.

Attached i give you a small preview from our new manual with the machines' dimensions.

For any further assistance/clarification, do not hesitate to contact me.

Giorgio Patrini
Heart Sound Team
-------------------------------------
Below is a screenshot of the pdf they sent me:

Hi ac,

As you know, I had also made an inquiry with Heart Sound. They also replied to me today and it seems very encouraging that these tuners will soon be finding their way onto guitars. I'm hoping to get to try them out.

ac · #10 08-29-2016, 03:38 AM

I followed up with these questions and received a reply:

Do you have any information on the strength of the gears?
Are they durable when they contact each other?
How long do you expect the connecting gears to keep working before they begin to wear out?

--------------------------
"We're doing new tests to give customers more informations about it.

We have some preliminary test that give us the strength of the gears and other test about the duration are scheduled for the next month but the preliminary tests have had good results.

We want to use this informations to produce a video summary of the properties. Follow us.

Best Regards,

Giorgio Patrini
Heart Sound"