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  #16  
Old 04-17-2017, 09:31 AM
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Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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I tip my hat to the people that can study these tunes and learn them. As one person said I too must know the structure of a song before starting. Tabs without the chord/structure are a pain for me. The first thing I have to do is figure out the chord structure. Then I try to figure out what, if any, chord they are playing out of at the different positions of the fingerboard. For me to be told put your fingers here and then put your fingers there and it'll all work out in the end doesn't work. I have to conceptualize it first. It reminds me of the guitar teacher that wanted to teach me how to read music when I started. I'm sure most of you play better than I so I am not saying my way is better.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2017, 04:56 PM
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This is EXACTLY what I love about this site! Everybody brings something interesting not to mention helpful to the conversation.

Pitar - that makes perfect sense to me. I never really thought about it in those terms but i tend to dissect tunes that way too. Create a foundation then fill in the details.

Dave - I wasn't even aware of Roger Hudson before reading your post. Glad to see there might be some less complex pieces to start on, but you're right - he is amazing. I may never be able to pull off one of his pieces but I've played my way to a level where I don't say "can't" anymore.

John - thanks for the encouraging post. Interesting point on converting to MOV or MP4 - I had no idea. If i get stuck on that issue, I'll reach out to you guys again.

I was going to post a response on the thread about why this site is still going strong. As a newbie, I'll tell you it's because of the members. Everyone here is beyond friendly and helpful plus the amount on knowledge and experience is off the charts!

Thanks Guys

Dan
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2017, 05:12 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I know nothing of the technical tools of which have been spoken.

I learned very little from song books or tab.

I am still suspicious of such things as I feel they might teach you to copy rather than compose and develop your own style.

Here's a crazy idea :

Watch that video over and overagin. memorise the melody line and,at least the main parts of the prgression (not the inversions etc).

Obsess a little then go to sleep "playing it though" in your mind.


Then remember what you were thinking about as you dozed off.

I've learnt a number of instrumentals that way - the first one --way back!) was Greensleeves and it was long before YouTube etc - all I knew as I slept was that it's first chord was Am.
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  #19  
Old 04-18-2017, 05:21 PM
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It's really funny that you say that because I constantly have music going on in my head, including at night. I think my ear's pretty good I may just have to expand my knowledge of various chord locations and a few other tools to help me find what I'm hearing.

It made me laugh, though, when you said play it in your mind as you go to sleep - I do that a lot.

You may be onto something!

Dan
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  #20  
Old 04-18-2017, 05:44 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
This is a fairly sophisticated arrangement with interesting harmony and rhythm. I can suggest that you can learn it by getting the software Transcribe!, which is capable of slowing down a video while remaining sync'ed with the audio, and setting loop points so you are working with a very small section of the tune at a time.
Tony
I looked at the website for this, but I'm confused about what it actually does. It shows you a waveform, slows it down without changing pitch, lets you mark the track with text. Is it different than what Audacity does somehow?
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  #21  
Old 04-18-2017, 06:27 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDee View Post
I looked at the website for this, but I'm confused about what it actually does. It shows you a waveform, slows it down without changing pitch, lets you mark the track with text. Is it different than what Audacity does somehow?
Audacity can do some of that too. It is just easier in Transcribe! because the software was optimized for that, where Audacity is general audio editing software that happens to also have the ability to slow down a passage of music.

Also, with Transcribe! you can download a video from, say, Youtube that has a tune you want to learn. You see the person playing guitar, fingers on the fretboard as the person plays. You can slow down the video with Transcribe! just as easily and it will remain in sync with the audio so you can see exactly what the person is doing. Setting the loop area and slowing it down is the same whether working with strictly audio or a video that has audio. Also, Transcribe! has a number of tools built in that are specifically for learning a tune by ear, such as a nice EQ section so you can focus on just the bass line or just the melody or make the recording clearer or whatever.

With Transcribe! you can save all the metadata of your session. Then, you can just click on that file and Transcribe! will come up exactly as you left it last, with whatever loop points you had, and running the song file that you had loaded.

Another thing Transcribe! has is the ability to set various markers. So I can set section markers at the end of phrases, making it easy for me to find them again.

I could go on, but the main idea is the Transcribe! is a very mature and inexpensive piece of software that is used all over the world by folks learning songs by ear, professional transcribes, etc. The software has been optimized specifically for this and nothing else, instead of being for some other purpose and just happening to have some of functions that are good for figuring out stuff by ear.

Audacity is also a very mature piece of software, since it has been around for a long time too. However, it is not optimized for just one purpose as Transcribe! is. Audacity can do a lot more general audio stuff than Transcribe! can, but Transcribe!'s only purpose is as a tool for learning tunes by ear off recordings. Its interface is optimized for that, as is its workflow.

There are folks using Audacity for this purpose, but I just found it a bit clunky for that specific purpose. Since I do this sort of activity often, it was worth the minimal cost for me to get Transcribe!. Everyone has to decide its value for themselves.

I would suggest you try Audacity and get familiar with the process of learning by ear using software. If you decide you would like to try Transcribe!, you can download the demo version and see if it offers anything of value for you over Audacity. You only have to spend the money if you decide you want to buy it. You may find that you like Audacity's workflow for learning tunes and stay with that.

Tony
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  #22  
Old 04-19-2017, 05:30 AM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
Audacity can do some of that too. It is just easier in Transcribe! because the software was optimized for that, where Audacity is general audio editing software that happens to also have the ability to slow down a passage of music.

...
I would suggest you try Audacity and get familiar with the process of learning by ear using software. If you decide you would like to try Transcribe!, you can download the demo version and see if it offers anything of value for you over Audacity. You only have to spend the money if you decide you want to buy it. You may find that you like Audacity's workflow for learning tunes and stay with that.

Tony
Sold! Great and thorough description. Thank you so much. They need help writing their website. They should hire you.
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  #23  
Old 04-19-2017, 06:12 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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Just to be contrary, I've learned quite a bit from songbooks and tab arrangements. Especially when I have compared fingerstyle arrangements of a particular song in various books against each other.

It's given me a lot insight into how I might arrange my own versions. My own arrangement have been pretty sparse. But utilizing the knowledge of other's method's of arrangements have enabled me to improve.

My current favorite book is Pumping Nylon by Scott Tennant. While the title implies classical. It is full of a lot of exercises, tips, etc.. that will surely improve ANY fingerstyle guitar player.

I readily admit that I still steal bits and pieces of other's arrangements in my books, YouTube, etc... to create my own.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
I know nothing of the technical tools of which have been spoken.

I learned very little from song books or tab.

I am still suspicious of such things as I feel they might teach you to copy rather than compose and develop your own style.

Here's a crazy idea :

Watch that video over and overagin. memorise the melody line and,at least the main parts of the prgression (not the inversions etc).

Obsess a little then go to sleep "playing it though" in your mind.


Then remember what you were thinking about as you dozed off.

I've learnt a number of instrumentals that way - the first one --way back!) was Greensleeves and it was long before YouTube etc - all I knew as I slept was that it's first chord was Am.
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  #24  
Old 04-19-2017, 06:25 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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About 2 years ago, I stumbled upon Roger Hudson's YouTube videos. Since then, I've been engrossed with learning several of his songs via his books & magazine articles.

His use of open strings a lot in his arrangements make for very beautiful sounds.

Some of them are quite easy and some are extremely challenging. I have found some of his easier arrangements are very easy to play, but the timing might be difficult. For me, it's another challenge of learning to play in a new style as well as learning new tips for my own arranging.

Roger writes music that crosses the supposed boundaries between Classical, Jazz, Pop & Blues. All of his songs sound great played on steel string or nylon guitars.

Needless to say, I'm a big fan of his.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HOF dad View Post
This is EXACTLY what I love about this site! Everybody brings something interesting not to mention helpful to the conversation.

Pitar - that makes perfect sense to me. I never really thought about it in those terms but i tend to dissect tunes that way too. Create a foundation then fill in the details.

Dave - I wasn't even aware of Roger Hudson before reading your post. Glad to see there might be some less complex pieces to start on, but you're right - he is amazing. I may never be able to pull off one of his pieces but I've played my way to a level where I don't say "can't" anymore.

John - thanks for the encouraging post. Interesting point on converting to MOV or MP4 - I had no idea. If i get stuck on that issue, I'll reach out to you guys again.

I was going to post a response on the thread about why this site is still going strong. As a newbie, I'll tell you it's because of the members. Everyone here is beyond friendly and helpful plus the amount on knowledge and experience is off the charts!

Thanks Guys

Dan
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  #25  
Old 04-19-2017, 08:00 AM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkstott View Post
About 2 years ago, I stumbled upon Roger Hudson's YouTube videos. Since then, I've been engrossed with learning several of his songs via his books & magazine articles.

His use of open strings a lot in his arrangements make for very beautiful sounds.

...

Needless to say, I'm a big fan of his.
I looked him up but I'm not really into this type of fingerstyle so I wasn't able to see/hear exactly what you mean. It's very interesting to me, though. Could you just elaborate a little on how he uses the open strings in a way that is different?
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  #26  
Old 04-19-2017, 08:13 AM
EllaMom EllaMom is offline
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Default Which "Pumping Nylon"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkstott View Post
Just to be contrary, I've learned quite a bit from songbooks and tab arrangements. Especially when I have compared fingerstyle arrangements of a particular song in various books against each other.

It's given me a lot insight into how I might arrange my own versions. My own arrangement have been pretty sparse. But utilizing the knowledge of other's method's of arrangements have enabled me to improve.

My current favorite book is Pumping Nylon by Scott Tennant. While the title implies classical. It is full of a lot of exercises, tips, etc.. that will surely improve ANY fingerstyle guitar player.

I readily admit that I still steal bits and pieces of other's arrangements in my books, YouTube, etc... to create my own.

Hey dkstott, I just went to Amazon to look at Pumping Nylon, since you found that resource helpful. Holy Moly...there are a LOT of versions available. Which one do you have? Book only? Or with DVD and/or CD?

Thanks!
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  #27  
Old 04-19-2017, 09:54 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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Carol,

I bought the full version of Pumping Nylon with TAB. My sight reading is very weak. LOL

https://www.amazon.com/Pumping-Nylon.../dp/0882848356

I also bought a used DVD copy. It's okay, but seeing a couple of sections visually helped me. Fortunately, bought the DVD used.



Quote:
Originally Posted by EllaMom View Post
Hey dkstott, I just went to Amazon to look at Pumping Nylon, since you found that resource helpful. Holy Moly...there are a LOT of versions available. Which one do you have? Book only? Or with DVD and/or CD?

Thanks!
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  #28  
Old 04-19-2017, 10:05 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
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Hey SunnyDee

Roger Hudson style may not be yours or others cup of tea. BUT I personally like it.



Roger has sections of his arrangements where he lets them ring while playing other notes. I'm not sure if what Roger does is different than other players with open strings. He is also not afraid of using a capo on his nylon string guitar and that tends to give a nice change. PLUS he isn't a tapping or bongo type guitar player. His use of harmonic's is minimal & tasteful.

While the video is very bad, it's an example of his use of a capo and ringing open strings... I tend to call this haunting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asXmnMBVch0

FWIW- I'm also a fan of John Knowles, Gene Bertoncini, Charlie Byrd, Ralph Towner and a few other Nylon string guitar players.


Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDee View Post
I looked him up but I'm not really into this type of fingerstyle so I wasn't able to see/hear exactly what you mean. It's very interesting to me, though. Could you just elaborate a little on how he uses the open strings in a way that is different?
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  #29  
Old 04-19-2017, 12:08 PM
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No matter how you learn what notes/chords to play. Get and use a metronome. Start at half speed or slower, a speed where you can get all the notes or chords without hesitation. Play through it till there are no mistakes. Don't stop but find your place in the song and keep going. Increase speed 5 bpm and play it through till there are no mistakes. Repeat until you are up to speed. This may take several hours or days. You will be amazed after a couple of months of what you can do.

My first hour of my daily practice will usually be 1 tune. Second hour will be reviewing tunes that still need work. Third hour will be fun stuff. After a while it all becomes fun stuff.

If you ever want to play with other people timing is number 1.
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  #30  
Old 04-19-2017, 12:16 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkstott View Post
Hey SunnyDee

Roger Hudson style may not be yours or others cup of tea. BUT I personally like it.



...

While the video is very bad, it's an example of his use of a capo and ringing open strings... I tend to call this haunting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asXmnMBVch0

FWIW- I'm also a fan of John Knowles, Gene Bertoncini, Charlie Byrd, Ralph Towner and a few other Nylon string guitar players.


Dave
Thank you! I'll look into it more!
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