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  #16  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:18 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post
How much can you blend those signals?
If I understand the manual correctly, there's no need for blending with the raw pickup signal. ToneDexter has a "character" function which can provide a less ambient and more focused signal for cutting through a heavy mix or noisy room. I presume that David, or some other user, will be able to demo that for us also.
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:19 PM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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Hrm.

I guess I'll know soon enough; mine should be in the next shipment.

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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
If I understand the manual correctly, there's no need for blending with the raw pickup signal. ToneDexter has a "character" function which can provide a less ambient and more focused signal for cutting through a heavy mix or noisy room. I presume that David, or some other user, will be able to demo that for us also.
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  #18  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:25 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is online now
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It would be pretty easy to set up an experiment where one track records the ToneDexter signal while another track simultaneously records the signal from a mic (set up as it was during the training session) for the same playing sample. It would be interesting to note how close the ToneDexter recording is to the actual mic recording.

Last edited by guitaniac; 04-20-2017 at 11:31 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:32 PM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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That sounds like good results to me.
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  #20  
Old 04-21-2017, 03:25 AM
Marty C Marty C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlRob View Post
Thanks for the comparison Buzzard. It doesn't sound natural to me. Sounds processed. I like your pickup better I think. I don't know. I'll be curious what others think.
Hi Buzzardwhiskey,
If I could afford a guitar and pickup right now, I would buy exactly what you have - with or without the tone dexter. I really love the sound of your guitar with that K & K. It doesn't matter to me what the mic sound is like. That sounds great as is! With the tone dexter it is different, but I still like it. I have never heard a demo of a Schertler Unico either. Man that sounds good. That's the image that is in my head that I want to hear when I go to try out guitars. Now I know what instrument makes it!

Thanks for sharing that.
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  #21  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:04 AM
pipe dreamer pipe dreamer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey View Post
Here's a quick comparison.

You first hear my K&K equipped Martin CEO7 straight into a completely flat Schertler Unico and recorded via a Zoom H2 about 2 feet away. Then you hear the same setup using a ToneDexter preamp (also completely flat).

No processing whatsoever.



If you're aiming for the sound of a mic but just want to use a cheap pickup, this is as close as the world offers right now.
Fantastic! Thank you for putting this comparison together so quickly! I think it Certainly improves the tone considerably. I currently use a fishman aura di with matrix infinity. Do you have any experience with the aura? And if so how does the overall sound compare? Just trying to work out if I should sell the aura when they begin shipping to the uk!
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  #22  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:24 AM
The dman The dman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlRob View Post
Thanks for the comparison Buzzard. It doesn't sound natural to me. Sounds processed. I like your pickup better I think. I don't know. I'll be curious what others think.
I listened to it on headphones and at first glance it seems a bit bright but I think it will sound pretty good after it goes through a speaker and out to the audience. Listening direct is a different experience than pushing some air through a speaker
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  #23  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:32 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by The dman View Post
I listened to it on headphones and at first glance it seems a bit bright but I think it will sound pretty good after it goes through a speaker and out to the audience. Listening direct is a different experience than pushing some air through a speaker
I can't listen to the clip just yet (at work) but that was my main complaint with the Aura Spectrum. It always seemed to brighten up my tone and remove some warmth. I could never dial it out, it was either bright and a bit thin or dark and muddy. I am hopeful that the Tonedexter will be a bit larger sounding through a PA.
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  #24  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:02 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Some random thoughts...

1) Placement of the mic during training is extremely important.
2) Once you understand how it's done, making several stored mappings and then choosing what you'll keep/use is easy.
3) The software seems pretty stable and the UI fairly intuitive.
4) I played with the character dial. It's a little odd (seems divided into four "areas" rather than a smooth sound change). I have it completely "off".
5) The sound of guitar through a mic (what ToneDexter does) is not "normal" for many players, and actually might not be "best" for some situations, but I figure that's the purpose of an effects loop.

Thanks, everybody! I'll write about using it at the VFW tonight.

PS: I had an Aura pedal a long time ago when I was playing a Larrivee parlor and got rid of them both but I think that my pickup (another K&K) might have been installed poorly.
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Last edited by buzzardwhiskey; 04-21-2017 at 07:16 AM.
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:12 AM
midwinter midwinter is offline
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That's the absence of those somewhat desirable piezo low mids.....

Very curious to see how the TD works for me as a submixing system. Can't wait to get mine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I can't listen to the clip just yet (at work) but that was my main complaint with the Aura Spectrum. It always seemed to brighten up my tone and remove some warmth. I could never dial it out, it was either bright and a bit thin or dark and muddy. I am hopeful that the Tonedexter will be a bit larger sounding through a PA.
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  #26  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:57 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I can't listen to the clip just yet (at work) but that was my main complaint with the Aura Spectrum. It always seemed to brighten up my tone and remove some warmth. I could never dial it out, it was either bright and a bit thin or dark and muddy. I am hopeful that the Tonedexter will be a bit larger sounding through a PA.
In my experience, the un-EQed Pure Mini signal tends to be a little bassier than what one would hear acoustically, or what a mic would hear from far enough out to avoid the proximity effect. Added to that circumstance is the fact that ToneDexter intentionally finds and lowers the instrument's body resonance frequencyl a bit (according to the manual) to discourage feedback problems in live performance. For those reasons, one would expect the Pure Mini signal (recorded flat) to sound bassier than the ToneDexter signal (recorded flat).

Hopefully, the folks who prefer a bassier sound will be able to dial it in with ToneDexter's tone controls. I suspect that ToneDexter's ability to find and limit the instrument's body resonance frequency will make an overall bass boost less problematic, with respect to feedback and muddiness of sound.


If your reference to "larger sounding" refers to a more focused and less ambient sound, then ToneDexter's character function will hopefully help with that.

I've used the word "hopefully" here twice. I'm hoping that ToneDexter will give a lot of us what we want. I suspect it won't please everybody.


Regarding your disappointment with Aura, I can identify with that. I like the feel and sound of my Anthem SL/Zoom A3 setup better. On the other hand, my friend Cormac McCarthy's Aura sound with custom sound images (sound images created using his own guitar/pickup rig) is the "largest" amplified guitar sound that I've heard to date. Since ToneDexter is similar in theory to having Aura plus custom sound images, I'd be interested in it on that basis alone. That said, ToneDexter seems to go "above and beyond" Aura in that its usable with a larger variety of pickups and it might well be (the jury is still out) less feedback prone than Aura.
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  #27  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:18 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Just for fun I decided to run the track I already posted through some post-processing. I put it through a high pass filter at 60Hz and gradual gain increase starting at around 1000Hz through 4000Hz. Then I ran it through a plate reverb at around 10% mix. Here's the original and the new.





It's kind of amazing. The sound, after effects, is not tremendously different than what I might capture by using a mic into an audio interface into my computer. I have to remind myself that this was recorded having gone through a guitar amp.
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  #28  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:31 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
In my experience, the un-EQed Pure Mini signal tends to be a little bassier than what one would hear acoustically, or what a mic would hear from far enough out to avoid the proximity effect. Added to that circumstance is the fact that ToneDexter intentionally finds and lowers the instrument's body resonance frequencyl a bit (according to the manual) to discourage feedback problems in live performance. For those reasons, one would expect the Pure Mini signal (recorded flat) to sound bassier than the ToneDexter signal (recorded flat).

Hopefully, the folks who prefer a bassier sound will be able to dial it in with ToneDexter's tone controls. I suspect that ToneDexter's ability to find and limit the instrument's body resonance frequency will make an overall bass boost less problematic, with respect to feedback and muddiness of sound.


If your reference to "larger sounding" refers to a more focused and less ambient sound, then ToneDexter's character function will hopefully help with that.

I've used the word "hopefully" here twice. I'm hoping that ToneDexter will give a lot of us what we want. I suspect it won't please everybody.


Regarding your disappointment with Aura, I can identify with that. I like the feel and sound of my Anthem SL/Zoom A3 setup better. On the other hand, my friend Cormac McCarthy's Aura sound with custom sound images (sound images created using his own guitar/pickup rig) is the "largest" amplified guitar sound that I've heard to date. Since ToneDexter is similar in theory to having Aura plus custom sound images, I'd be interested in it on that basis alone. That said, ToneDexter seems to go "above and beyond" Aura in that its usable with a larger variety of pickups and it might well be (the jury is still out) less feedback prone than Aura.
By "larger sounding" I just mean that when I plug an acoustic in, I want a big sound. That doesn't necessarily mean all bass just something that makes my acoustic sound big. That's one reason why I couldn't work with the lyric. Yes, it sounded like my guitar but I missed that enhanced bass that many pickups add. I will say this, the sound clips above are impressive and the K&K seems to sound just as large when the mic'd image is applied.

By the way, this has probably been touched on somewhere on here but I would be tempted to rent a very high end mic just to capture the images. I have some good condenser mics but I wonder if one of those $3000 dollar studio mics would make a difference?
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  #29  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:51 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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I'm using the TD with my OM42 with K&K. It sounds great but I agree that a SBT can lack immediacy and punch, I can also make it feedback with a soundhole plug. I have an OM28 and I'm going to install a Fishman Matrix Infinity into it. I can't believe I'm going back to where I started with this pickup but I feel that it will work well with the TD and if I decide to just plug in to a board at a jam night I will still have a usable sound. Unlike the K&K which required you to keep a DI/EQ with you. James says that the mic quality and room acoustics do not matter so much. I went out last night and bought a $350 Shure SDC to make my image maps with. I'd invest in an even better one if it was proven it made a difference. Also to note, new strings do not seem to make the image map brighter.
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  #30  
Old 04-21-2017, 03:41 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Here is my effort Buzzard, ToneDexter into TC PlayAcoustic for guitar reverb and vocal effects.

Using an OM-42 with K&K.

https://soundcloud.com/aaronshortuk/norwegiandexter

I am pretty thrilled with the sound but I am still getting some booming from the low notes...
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