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Old 03-14-2017, 01:46 AM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Default Larrivee DV-10K finish issues. Larrivee sponsor chime in?

I acquired my Larrivee DV-10K in a trade about six years ago and right off the bat, noticed a strange finish issue...lets call it an anomaly. It doesn't affect the tone or playability at all. The closest description I've come up with (and I don't know if it applies here) is that perhaps the finish is "sunken" (?). It only shows up on the koa back & sides...the maple binding, bear-claw sitka top, mahogany neck are all fine.

It shows up as sort of pimply bumps in the finish just over the pores in the wood. My questions are going to be along the lines of...is there anything that can be done about this, short of re-finishing the whole thing? I wonder if there is enough finish on this that I could very gently sand down the high spots, using a sanding block and 1500-2000 grit wet paper.

This is also going to be my first attempt to post pics here...finally bit the bullet and set up an imgur account...please bear with me. The first 3 pics are just to show what the guitar is...the rest will be of the actual finish issue.



















To be continued...and much appreciation for any insights provided.
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:41 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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I would not sand that finish, it has areas where it currently is not fully bonding fully with the wood surface, best to leave it alone.

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Old 03-14-2017, 07:30 AM
joe white joe white is offline
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Max, since you say it is only on the back and sides, it's possible that the pores have sunken. Koa has pretty good sized pores and grain lines so over time the pore filler can shrink and pull the finish with it.
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Old 03-14-2017, 09:21 AM
tadol tadol is offline
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Looks like the nitro has shrunk into the pores - I'd never give it another thought - it's purely cosmetic at worst
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:29 AM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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I see finish that has sunk into the pores. This is normal for porous woods like Koa, except perhaps on guitars with too much finish on them or with a modern miracle of chemistry finish, either of which add mass or rigidity that is counterproductive to performance. Count your blessings.
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Old 03-14-2017, 02:45 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Actually, the finish isn't 'sunken-in' to the pores...it is standing out 'proud' from the rest of the surface at each pore. Really weird...I've never seen anything else quite like this.

If it was the other way, I don't think I would give it another thought, but this looks like it has the measles.

BTW, sorry about the pic size...it re-sized the first three and then for some reason it forgot to follow that instruction.
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Old 03-14-2017, 05:16 PM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
Actually, the finish isn't 'sunken-in' to the pores...it is standing out 'proud' from the rest of the surface at each pore. Really weird...I've never seen anything else quite like this
Quite common on polyester finishes, see it all the time.

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Old 03-16-2017, 04:31 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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So... I guess what I'm hearing is either live with it or completely refinish the back & sides?
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:09 PM
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If you have a hard cork block and some wet/dry paper, you could carefully sand the surface smooth, then buff it out - just be very careful not to go thru - but I'd suggest living with it -
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:27 PM
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When the pores are swelling like that it can be the pore filler causing it. Some users of UV pore fillers have experienced different levels of failure. If you were able to determine what finishing process and materials were used, you might be able to decide on the best repair (if any) to make.
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Old 03-16-2017, 06:36 PM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Yes you nailed it, either live with it or have it completely removed and redone.

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Old 03-17-2017, 01:04 AM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadol View Post
If you have a hard cork block and some wet/dry paper, you could carefully sand the surface smooth, then buff it out - just be very careful not to go thru - but I'd suggest living with it -
This is along the lines I was thinking...to just try to level out the little bumps somewhat and then buff with polishing compound. Maybe try on a small area first and see how it pans out.

originally posted by Joe White..."When the pores are swelling like that it can be the pore filler causing it. Some users of UV pore fillers have experienced different levels of failure. If you were able to determine what finishing process and materials were used, you might be able to decide on the best repair (if any) to make".


I might try to direct our Larrivee sponsor to this post to see if they could give me some insight, or at least confirm exactly what it was they used.

I guess this is all part of acquiring a high-end guitar...something happens to it and one might tend to freak out (although to be honest, it was like this when I got it). Apart from the relatively minor finish bobble, the guitar plays great and sounds wonderful. I do worry a bit how this might affect resale value if I ever wanted to try to parlay it into something even more ostentatious.
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Old 03-18-2017, 12:08 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
This is along the lines I was thinking...to just try to level out the little bumps somewhat and then buff with polishing compound. Maybe try on a small area first and see how it pans out.
It's your guitar, it may work, it likely won't.

I spray and touch up ultra violet cured paints on Taylor guitars and Prs guitars and Maton guitars on a fairly regular basis, so have a little bit of a background working with this product.

To clarify, first you have uv cured finish, the poly is nice and hard and great as a finish,

however

Wood expands and contracts over the years from altering temperatures and humiditys, the pore filler is a gel that is light cured and goes hard, the gel is not wood, so it expands and contracts at a different rate to the wood, as expansion and contraction occurs, it push the small areas of cured gel up out of the pores and end up giving a raised appearance under the poly top coats.

If the gel was disbonded, that is completely broken out of the pores you would have a white appearance to the areas in question.

If the raised sections look visually clear, then they are still gripping the wood, but the wood grain area is now to small, if you attempt to flat sand, you will remove the top coat in these locations, this will possibly dislodge the gel and or give you a funky looking finish as you will have areas of gel and then topcoats, so you will see layers in the final finished job.

Long story short, live with it or have it compleltey redone.

Steve
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Old 03-18-2017, 09:00 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
This is along the lines I was thinking...to just try to level out the little bumps somewhat and then buff with polishing compound. Maybe try on a small area first and see how it pans out.

originally posted by Joe White..."When the pores are swelling like that it can be the pore filler causing it. Some users of UV pore fillers have experienced different levels of failure. If you were able to determine what finishing process and materials were used, you might be able to decide on the best repair (if any) to make".


I might try to direct our Larrivee sponsor to this post to see if they could give me some insight, or at least confirm exactly what it was they used.

I guess this is all part of acquiring a high-end guitar...something happens to it and one might tend to freak out (although to be honest, it was like this when I got it). Apart from the relatively minor finish bobble, the guitar plays great and sounds wonderful. I do worry a bit how this might affect resale value if I ever wanted to try to parlay it into something even more ostentatious.
I strongly advise against this. As I stated in your other thread, I have fixed one like this before. Sanding on what is essentially a high "bubble" of finish will only hasten breaking through the finish.

I would only go this route if you are more okay with patches of exposed wood surrounded by jagged breaks in the surrounding clear coat more than the way it looks now.

I can tell you how I repaired mine if you wish, but sanding on a bubble full of air will not change the appearance for the better and will likely make it much, much worse.
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Old 03-18-2017, 02:01 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Yeah, I think the only recourse is going to be to show this to Larrivee and get a quote to correct it. As mentioned, it's pretty much stable as it is...hasn't changed in the six years I've owner this guitar. I'm really the only one who ever sees this, so it's just a matter of whether it would be worth it in terms of resale/trade value if I wanted to parlay this into a higher-end instrument.

Thanks for the input!
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