Are melody notes always from the same key as the chords?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Maybe I am really screwed up here but I show the F and C notes in the key of D to be sharps.
And the F in the key of G to be a sharp.

Yes, you're correct. When you switch keys each note from the original key goes up (or down) the same number of half steps. In your (key D to key D) it is five half steps for each note.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by Runepune

Just use the circle of fifths. To go from the key of D to the key of G is one step counter clockwise on that circle. So, for any note in the key of D, exchange it with the note one step counter clockwise.

Thanks. I had never used this for notes before.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Thanks. I had never used this for notes before.

There's more great uses for the circle of 5ths than the one it was designed for:

1. Read it as chords, not keys. Pick a major key (outer circle): that's your tonic (I) chord. The V is clockwise, the IV anti-clockwise. Assuming you have a circle showing the relative minors on the inner circle, the three minor chords are on the inside of the three majors (iii, vi ii). Remember you don't need the vii chord (dim) - nobody uses that!

2. Read it as notes, not chords. To get the 7 notes in any major scale, pick a keynote. Then add 1 note counterclockwise, and 5 clockwise. (Make sure you have one of each letter, and don't mix sharps and flats.)

The system doesn't quite work for chords in a minor key, because it doesn't allow for harmonic minor variations (the major V chord).

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

OK, so can I take the OP's question and kind of flip it upside down? How do you know what chords will go with each melody note? Imagine having a sheet that ONLY has the single melody notes on it, and no chord charts or names above the melody. How do you figure out the right chord(s)?

Various strategies...

1. Add up all the notes in the whole tune. That will likely spell (or at least imply) a scale or mode of some sort, but there's no need to identify or name it. Just treat all the notes as a pool from which you can build the chords you need. (A little knowledge of chord theory will help, of course - which notes are in which chords - and if you know that you'll probably recognise major scales when you see them.)

2. Go through the tune a group of notes at a time - phrase by phrase. (If you have staff notation for the melody, take it bar by bar.)
For bar 1, look at the main notes in each bar: the longest ones, or the ones on beat 1 and 3. Which chords contain those notes? Sometimes other notes (on beat 2 and 4) will give hints. If you only have one note in the bar... You have a choice of 3 chords (triads), because the note could be root, 3rd or 5th.
If that pool of notes you added up suggests a major (or minor) key to you, start with the tonic chord as the safest bet, especially if the strong notes in bar 1 are in that chord. 99% of songs start with the tonic chord; at least in pop/rock/folk/country/blues. Remember the note(s) can be root, 3rd or 5th.

3. Hold that chord for as long as you can - all through the following bars - until the melody really sounds wrong. That might be in bar 2 - it might even be half-way through bar 1! But in general you should resist changing chord until the melody demands it. If the tune sounds OK while you strum the same chord for 8 bars... fine! (But likely you'll want to vary it a little if that's too boring. Remember that if the lyrics or melody are really interesting, the chords needn't be, provided they fit.)

4. When the melody contains a strong (long or accented note) that doesn't fit that first chord - find a chord it does fit (again, drawing from the total set of notes in the melody).

5. If that first key chord was major, stick with the three major chords of the key to begin with. They contain the whole scale between them, so(in theory) can harmonise anything in the melody. Go for one of the minors (vi, ii or iii) if and when the majors don't quite cut it.
Likewise, if that first chords was minor (and your theory knowledge suggests the key is minor) stay with the three main minor chords, with the possible exception of a major V chord.
Eg., if your pool of notes ends up as ABCDEFG, and the tune ends on A (at the very end), the key may be A minor, and you should stick with Am, Dm and E to begin with - adding C or F if the melody really seems to demand it (while accepting that G or Em might well work too).
Of course if that's your pool of notes and the tune ends on C, it's more likely the key is C, so you'll be jugging C, F and G(7) chords to begin with, only drawing on Am (or Dm or Em) when they don't quite work

This is a way of getting a "safe" set of chords to accompany a tune. A place to start. As you get used to how different melody notes sound with the various chords, you'll get more creative. As an example, here's how Twinkle Twinkle might work:

---------0-0----------------------------------------
-----3-3-----3----1-1-0-0--------------------------------
-0-0----------------------2-2-0----------------------
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------

Pool of notes (in order) G D E C B A. No F (so could be F or F#). Notice it both begins and ends on G, so key of G major (not C) is a safe bet. So the missing F is probably F#. (You can still work without knowing this.)

Assuming 4/4, the bars work out as follows:

|---------|0-0-----|---------|-------------------------
|-----3-3-|----3---|-1-1-0-0-|-------------------------------
|-0-0-----|--------|---------|2-2-0----------------------
|---------|--------|---------|------------------------
|---------|--------|---------|------------------------
|---------|--------|---------|-----------------------

Bar 1 = notes G and D. Pretty obvious this chord should be G, yes? It contains both notes, nothing left over. And no need to change chord.

Bar 2: E and D. No chord contains both notes, so we need two chords here. Out of the 3 major chords that pool of notes gives us (assuming we've added F#), E only occurs in the C chord. So it's C for beats 1 and 2. For the D note, we could use a D chord, or we could go back to G. Try both and see which sounds best.

Bar 3: C and B. Again 2 different notes, and this is easy. C is the only choice for the C note, and G for the B note. (No need to try minors yet, remember, as long as everything sounds OK.)

Bar 4: A and G. Now it has to be D for the A note. The G note could fit a a G or C chord, so try both. Probably because of the way the melody descends to a stop (pause) here, G is probably best, but the choice is yours. You'll notice, by the way, that if you have tab like this you can just go with your knowledge of chord shapes. Which chords have those notes in? No theory at all required....) So, we end up with this:

 G         C   G     C   G    D   G
|---------|0-0-----|---------|-------------------------
|-----3-3-|----3---|-1-1-0-0-|-------------------------------
|-0-0-----|--------|---------|2-2-0----------------------
|---------|--------|---------|------------------------
|---------|--------|---------|------------------------
|---------|--------|---------|-----------------------

Nothing at all wrong with that. Unless maybe you're a jazz musician...

Remember those minor chords? Taking that pool of notes, we can make Am, Em and Bm chords from them. (Just stacking in 3rds from any note, we don't need key theory for this - although some knowledge of notes on your fretboard, at least from frets 0-4, can help).
Seeing as we have 2 chords in bars 2, 3 and 4, why not try 2 chords in bar 1? Staying with G on beats 1-2, we could choose either D or Bm for beats 3-4.
Here, a useful tip - once you understand the above process - is to remember that the least interesting way to harmonise a melody note is to make it the chord root. So let's not play a D chord on that D note. Play Bm instead. Cool, yes? Adds a really nice, slightly melancholy effect.
You may now notice you could harmonise that top E with Am (or Em)...

If your appetite is not yet satisfied, you can add some juicy 7ths here and there if it helps the piece flow. The D in bar 4 could easily be be D7. The G on beats 3-4 in bar 1 could be either Gmaj7 (diatonic), or G7 (secondary dominant! hello jazz! ). And it could have a B bass too - making a nice move up to the following C root...

Now you need to be careful you don't get carried away! Always remember: K.I.S.S. The tune is the thing. Don't swamp the tune with too many chords, or too complicated ones. This is nursery rhyme or lullaby, not a jazz tune. (Not that you can't have some fun turning it into one...)

Naturally, when you find chromatic notes - when that total pool of notes contains more than one of any note (eg both F and F#, or both C and C#), then things get a little more complicated/interesting. You'll probably notice that (say) the F note is more common in the song than F# (or vice versa), so you can treat the less common one as an accidental, and you only need to use it in a chord when it happens to occur in the melody.
And of course all this is just guidance. As with all music theory (and practices), what's right is what sounds right, and the "rules" are simply about what's common and less common.
The rule is: there's always exceptions to any rule (even this one....)

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

OK, so can I take the OP's question and kind of flip it upside down? How do you know what chords will go with each melody note? Imagine having a sheet that ONLY has the single melody notes on it, and no chord charts or names above the melody. How do you figure out the right chord(s)?

Experience. There is no "transporter" or "Tardis" that will instantly place you at the end of the journey. Several have suggested choosing just the ONE song which you know best by heart and using it as the key to unlock the doors as you encounter them.

I think of it like this:

Pick ONE tune, do it well, then move on to the next. IME, the first five or six tunes may be a bit of a slog, but when you've gotten this first bunch done, the next 10 or 15 tunes will roll right along.

The more arrows you have in your quiver, so to speak, the lighter the load as you progress over time.

Probably THE most effective things are:

1-5. Listening!

6. A good teacher with whom you can sit down face to face.

7. A musical friend or peer group with whom you can just sit down and have some musical fun.

YouTube can be good as can books and Internet Forums, BUT...a good teacher (or mentor, if you will) will get you to a place where you can enjoy the process.
Not all who can play can teach...not all who can teach are players.

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by stanron

I've developed a good memory for sounds. Most musicians do, especially those who play by ear. If you've been playing for a while you probably have too.

So I'll play the tune and in my head play back the song as I've heard it before, harmonies included. It's then a simple matter of trial and error to find which chords match what I remember. If I've not heared the tune before I'll look for it online and work from that.

Yep. Plus, looking at a D note on the staff is a pretty good clue. Like you, notes in a tonal progression quickly reveal the chord progression by ear alone. If only on paper, no difference. It's simply a result of time and ear training. My advice to anyone about learning to play is to keep the ear the focal point of learning. It dictates skills progression.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

OK, so can I take the OP's question and kind of flip it upside down? How do you know what chords will go with each melody note? Imagine having a sheet that ONLY has the single melody notes on it, and no chord charts or names above the melody. How do you figure out the right chord(s)?

Short version (nothing chiseled in stone tablets though)
Find the key:
1. last note played in melody the root note
2. first note played in melody usually root note or dominant note
3. sharps or flats in the melody line ( longer lasting ones as short lasting notes could be accidentals (one of them: F# key of G, or Bb key of F, take if from there for two or three or four of them).

You of course already know the chords contained in various keys.

It is possible for the key to change around within a piece, not so much in most music, but sometimes frequently as within some jazz music.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

It is possible for the key to change around within a piece, not so much in most music, but sometimes frequently as within some jazz music.

Or the bridge or chorus. Some songs may have the intro in one key, the song in another. Again, experience and an ever-expanding repetoire.

A good teacher will help you find playable examples of various progressions and tonalities to give a practical application of various principles and, ahem...theory.

Application leads to insight. This is a "palindromic" statement as it can be read forward or backward with equal import.

[EllaMom]

Thanks again for sharing your wisdom, and sorry OP, if this is hijacking.

JonPR, your explanation was an excellent dissection of the WHY/HOW behind the WHAT. A lightbulb clicked on for me.

C.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

Thanks again for sharing your wisdom, and sorry OP, if this is hijacking.

Not a problem.
As stated I am woefully ignorant on most aspects of musical theory.
I enjoy learning and have saved some of this thread to my paper notebooks.