So where did Merle Travis learn Travis picking from?

[HHP]

Originally Posted by A-Mac

Why did he have to learn "from" anyone? Maybe he did, but it's entirely possible he worked up the technique on his own. If not him, somebody did.

Not necessarily. Things like this evolve over a long period of time and are a result of all sorts of influences. "Doing it wrong" can be one of them.

I have a copy of one of the first guitar instruction books written in English. Very similar to what you would be taught today but it represents many decades of actual playing before it was put down on paper. It dates to the early 1800's and there are passages that are not dissimilar to Travis picking.

[HHP]

Here's Sam McGee and his brother Kirk. Sam was 20 years Travis' senior and would have already been playing when Travis was born. McGee credited local blues players in East Tennessee.

[fatt-dad]

Just another shout-out to John Cephas! It was in his house that I (tried) to learn, Piedmont Blues. Now, I'm on a long journey (and I still work on my mandolin), but really enjoy playing in the style of John and love the tunes he taught me.

John along with the Rev. only used thumb and one finger. Not sure who came up with two fingers joining the thumb!

f-d

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by fatt-dad

Just another shout-out to John Cephas! It was in his house that I (tried) to learn, Piedmont Blues. Now, I'm on a long journey (and I still work on my mandolin), but really enjoy playing in the style of John and love the tunes he taught me.

John along with the Rev. only used thumb and one finger. Not sure who came up with two fingers joining the thumb!

f-d

His home in Bowling Green? I was there hanging with him in his kitchen one morning.

[RP]

Originally Posted by fatt-dad

...John along with the Rev. only used thumb and one finger. Not sure who came up with two fingers joining the thumb!

f-d

That would be the Porter Style first used by yours truly....yes, I'm kidding but I think early on it wasn't as hard to get your name indelibly attached to something...

[tbeltrans]

Usually, with stuff like this, more than one person was experimenting and evolving the rudiments of this style of playing. It is quite rare that only one person in the entire world was thinking of something that nobody else had ever given at least thought to. It may be that one person came up with a workable solution to a problem, but I really doubt that only one person was thinking of the problem in one way or another.

One thing that becomes quickly obvious to me, especially with the broad access of the internet, is that whatever I am thinking about or dealing with at any moment, that I tend to think might be unique to me, ALWAYS turns out to be something literally millions of folks are also dealing with or at least thinking about. If there is anything that makes us not unique, it is thinking that we are unique.

Tony

[jmat]

First: this is a great thread. Interesting to hear all the accumulated history. Afg could write a book!

Second: I learned 'travis' style from a good old boy in Oklahoma named Steve. Steve could play, he could hear a tune and rip it back Travis style on about the first go. Lord knows where he learned but the word Chet came up a lot. Steve never met Chet but had the albums and a lifetime of playing in country bands as a guitar slinger for hire. There are probably only a few degrees of separation between steve and some of the forebears mentioned on this thread. One can only guess.

Third: check this out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberti_bass. The Alberti bass has been around in piano since at least since 1700s and used by Mozart later. I learned about this as a teenager in Oklahoma when I studied classical piano by day, with a great mentor named William Fletcher, and country guitar with steve at night. But it was the same! Alberti put down some Travis bass lines although Alberti preceded Merle by a few hundred years.

So the question becomes: who taught Domenico Alberti the Alberti bass??

[Eldergreene]

Another strand in the development of this guitar style may be the parlour guitar music of the late 1800s - for anyone interested, there's a fine CD on Smithsonian/Folkways by Mike Seeger called 'Early Southern Guitar Sounds' , where he gives fascinating examples of many early pieces; coupled with syncopated african-american approaches, & the dominance of ragtime syncopation, a brew may well have formed, out of which more 'modern' syncopated techniques would emerge - Mississippi John Hurt & Frank Stokes come to mind as possible links to those earlier styles - fascinating stuff!

[robj144]

Who learned to play the guitar on the first one made? Someone had to from nothing. Every popular technique came from just fooling around until something sounded interesting. Then they polished it, developed it, and passed it on where it evolves from there.

[tpbiii]

I seems to me that most of the old country guitar -- and banjo players too -- used the thumb and index with a planted middle finger. I have always thought was that was because it was a power position -- so you could play louder. As the folk era calmed things down and plugging in became standard it was not so much an issue for many.

[fatt-dad]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

His home in Bowling Green? I was there hanging with him in his kitchen one morning.

Yes, on Paige Road. That's where I went for my lessons.

f-d

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by ewalling

I've heard the name Mose Rager suggested as one of the major influences.

This man wins the prize.............

[Finger Stylish]

Originally Posted by Toby Walker

He didn't invent the style, but his name was sure used to popularize it.

During my time with the late John Cephas - who was an excellent Piedmont/Travis style picker, he told me that one of the folks who inspired him was another Virgina resident by the name of John Jackson.

Cephas told me that Jackson's uncle was a foreman working for a railroad company, and one of the kids that worked for him was interested in the unique way he played guitar. As you probably guessed, that kid was Merle.

And who knows where Jackson may have learned it from.

As a 15 year old boy who had just been playing guitar for about a year. My dad took me to John Jacksons house. He was so kind and gracious. He gave me 2 of his vinyl LP's, Autographed them, let me play his J50. He had a real positive affect of a curly headed kid. The script on the back of his Album vol.2 "More Blues and Country Dance Tunes from Virginia" refers to Merle as; white kid who was working with them.
I treasure that meeting in 1974

[Finger Stylish]

Originally Posted by HHP

Here's Sam McGee and his brother Kirk. Sam was 20 years Travis' senior and would have already been playing when Travis was born. McGee credited local blues players in East Tennessee.

That sounded to my ear more like the piedmont blues than Travis picking. That looked like a Grammer Guitar he played. I started out on a Grammer back in the early 70's that a man at Church let us borrow. Mr. Travis had a heavier thumb than McGee, and Sam used 2 fingers and a thumb. I always liked Doc Watsons version of Victory rag.
Thanks for the video of Sam & his Brother. They were well thought of!