Big guitar manufacturers and carbon fiber

[bdjansen]

Looking at rainsong guitars today and I was wondering, why haven't any of the big guitar manufacturers (Martin, Taylor, Gibson) begun producing carbon fiber guitars?

Or even a company like Fender buying one of the current carbon fiber guitar makers, adding it to their list of sub brands and expanding it through access to their overseas manufacturing and distribution networks.

I'm not saying this should or shouldn't happen, just wondering why it hasn't. The big guys always seem to be trying to find the next niche in the overcrowded guitar market and cheaper carbon fiber guitars would be something I would think somebody would pursue.

[Ed-in-Ohio]

Excellent question.

As traditional tonewoods become more and more scarce, and the carbon fiber manufacturing process becomes more and more refined and perfected; one would think this will be an area of potential growth in an otherwise saturated market.

[zeeway]

I would think they would be concerned with "legitimizing" the concept of non-wood guitars. As a result more people might try a carbon fiber guitar and realize how good these guitars are...and so further threaten the wood guitar industry. The short answer is that they don't want to eat their young.

[jdinco]

Originally Posted by bdjansen

The big guys always seem to be trying to find the next niche in the overcrowded guitar market and cheaper carbon fiber guitars would be something I would think somebody would pursue.

CF guitars are not "cheaper" than cheaper wood guitars.

[Captain Jim]

I believe I read here that Taylor makes more guitars in a week than the largest CF manufacturer makes in a year. Pretty much a niche market. The big manufacturers are geared up for production; with CF guitars being made in a mold, the tooling costs for mass production would be huge, with no guarantee of a return on investment.

Other than the final result is a guitar, the production process of wood and carbon fiber are vastly different.

I appreciate the fact that our carbon fiber guitars are not mass produced, but, like a small wood shop using jigs, are carefully made one at a time. For my choice, it isn't about how many guitars any particular builder makes, but how the guitar I choose sounds, plays, looks, and fits me.

[jonfields45]

Martin made an X series guitar with HPL sides/back and a graphite top. It had a shorter production run than the aluminum topped versions.

There is a lot of hand work very specific to CF construction which has no analog in wood guitar manufacture. The barrier to entry is high.

Also, there are three "architectures" of CF guitar construction; Emerald makes essentially an unbraced archtop, RainSong makes an unbraced flattop, and CA makes a braced flattop. There is no Martin D-28 to copy.

Peavey purchased Composite Acoustics and refined the CA guitars. I have no idea how the purchase has worked out for Peavey.

[Carbonius]

Originally Posted by EvanB

Peavey purchased Composite Acoustics and refined the CA guitars. I have no idea how the purchase has worked out for Peavey.

I was just going to mention that, Peavey that is.

I had expected new models, budget models to come out. It seems that Peavey left CA quite autonomous from themselves. I was expecting a foreign factory that would drop costs for a budget line.

Journey is turning heads with all their features at a low price point (overseas production). When Don Ross does an 8 minute video of your product, it really says something. I haven't seen him jump on the endorsement bandwagon, so I think it is quite authentic. If you don't know what I mean, here it is.

[Acousticado]

Not that McPherson is a big player, but they are very well regarded and have ventured into the CF market with the Sable and smaller travel guitar (formerly branded as "Kevin Michael' guitars, until recently).

[Doubleneck]

It really is a niche product. The market is very small, and is considerably more expensive to produce than a wood instrument the big players are already geared up to make. Not at all surprising they have stayed out. The staticness of CA after Peavey took them over says something about their enthusiasm?

[Truckjohn]

Its a completely different manufacturing process. Their current tooling and processes aren't set up for an all CF instrument..... As such - there is quite a bit of R&D involved with bringing an idea to market..

Honestly - there is a reason that companies like Fender are buying CF Acoustic guitar makers. Its just so much less expensive to buy somebody who has already worked out the bugs and did all the hard work getting a product to market rather than doing all the R&D, pilot production, warranty testing, and the rest on their own....

[Acousticado]

I understand why any of the CF builders might welcome a take-over by a major tradional guitar builder. Lots of money to be made, I s'pose. If the opportunity were to come along, personally I hope none of them would actually go for it. As a customer, I very much like the way things are right now. Great products, personalized service, even participation here. It doesn't get any better than that.

[Long Jon]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

I understand why any of the CF builders might welcome a take-over by a major tradional guitar builder. Lots of money to be made, I s'pose. If the opportunity were to come along, personally I hope none of them would actually go for it. As a customer, I very much like the way things are right now. Great products, personalized service, even participation here. It doesn't get any better than that.

Yes , I was sorry to hear about Gibson buying Emerald. Let's hope There will be no change to their famous customer service.

Peavey spent a lot of time and money in refining its CA line. One of the problems of such a takeover is that CF instruments are still in the development stage and while Peavey was busy reworking an old line of instruments the other CF makers were plowing ahead with innovations in materials and shapes. If this forum is any indication, the new materials and shapes are leading the CF market.

[Res Ipsa]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

Yes , I was sorry to hear about Gibson buying Emerald. Let's hope There will be no change to their famous customer service.

Where did your hear that? Did I miss that news while I've been under a rock?