Frustrated guitarist , help

[Daveyo]

I have been playing guitar for a long time with very little
progress
I like pop stuff like the Beatles,John Mayer, Doobie bros, James Taylor
Jason Mraz
what do I need to learn to write songs,(Ive written a couple)
and to get around the guitar for soloing and chord voicing stuff?
do I need to learn more scales, I know the major , minor and pentatonic
or do I need to learn modes? Im confused
any help would be appreciated
by the way, i can read a bit but really it doesnt interest me
thanks
David

[Pitar]

None of the stuff you mentioned found its way into my vocabulary when I was learning to play, after I was reasonably skilled enough to begin writing and even after composing an untold number of my own songs.

My sole focus was playing published music and then modeling my own song structures from those influences. From there, I've grown by fits and starts but have always progressed in a direction I've chosen.

If I might be of any help at all, I'd wager that you're letting stuff lead you versus you leading you, in a search for a hocus-pocus quick return on the investment. Find music you enjoy listening to enough to learn it. Let it teach you in the natural, informal sense, and build upon that. Musical instruction is endless, alive and waiting to be realized in published music if you spend time listening well.

Many people want to fast-forward something that simply cannot be accelerated, or otherwise propelled, to a state of self-gratification. If that could happen, I'd buy a bottle of it.

[jseth]

A basic introduction to Modern Diatonic Harmony is a great way to learn about "the way" that modern music "works"... Years ago (1977), I received an intense tutelage from a then-recent graduate of the Berklee School of Music, and the knowledge I gained shifted the way I listened, played and wrote music from that point onward!

I'm not talking about "classical" theory, but specifically Diatonic Harmony - how the chords in a given major scale fit and move around... try going online to Berklee and see if they have an introduction to Diatonic Harmony lesson plan...

As far as soloing and playing lead stuff in a cogent manner, once you have some basic harmony under your belt, you will be able to see and hear where the scales you already know can work in a marvelous fashion!

To become facile with my single note playing, I worked scales with a metronome, starting with 1/4 notes at a VERY SLOW pace (like 40 bpm or so... painfully slow! I tried to make each note as perfectly sounded as I could as I moved from 1/4 notes through 1/8 notes (both even and swing 1/8's), triplets and 16th notes... then go up one half-step (one fret) and do it again on the next root note, all the way up and then back down the fretboard... if you do this correctly, it is really very much a meditation and requires sharp focus. I would do this with several different scales for an hour or more, everyday, and after a number of months I was at the point where the notes flowed fluidly.

One thing to remember is that NO ONE wants to hear you play scales! So, once you learn these backwards and forwards, it is up to YOU to integrate them in your playing... sounding out and playing melody lines is a great way to do this... some other "tricks" are to make your lines (the series of notes you play) longer and then longer still... sing a note to yourself, whether audible or just inside your head, and play that note; once you begin with this, try to sing a line and play it at the same time... this helps keep your playing more melodic and "conversational"... after all, you are really "telling a story" with the notes you play! Lastly, reach for wider intervals between your notes - instead of just running a scale do-re-mi, try playing one note and then going a 4th higher, or a 6th higher (or whatever), and play the scale that way...

The harmony part is really NOT all that hard to understand; the soloing part is largely up to you and how hard you're willing to work it... unless you just want to play exactly like someone else, in which case just copy them as best you can.

You are moving towards a wonderful journey with your music! Have fun and let us know how it goes...

[RPK]

I find instant progress by typing "How to play (any song) " on Utube. My favorite instructors usually come up and now I can learn that song correctly. I have been playing guitar for 60 years and I find this to be "progress" for me

RPK

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Daveyo

I have been playing guitar for a long time with very little
progress
I like pop stuff like the Beatles,John Mayer, Doobie bros, James Taylor
Jason Mraz
what do I need to learn to write songs,(Ive written a couple)

How do you think they learned to write songs? By copying the songs they liked, discovering cool sounds and stealing them.
That means putting in a LOT of work learning LOTS of songs. The more you copy, the bigger your vocabulary. (I suggest going back to simpler, older songs first, rather than diving in and learning - say - Beatles and Doobies tunes, which can get quite complicated.)
Not sure how long it took the others, but the Beatles spent 5 years learning 100s of songs (and playing them live) before making it big.

Originally Posted by Daveyo

and to get around the guitar for soloing and chord voicing stuff?
do I need to learn more scales,

No. Just learn as many shapes as you can for all the chords you know. For any chord sequence, try to play all the chords in the same region of the neck (it's always possible, in any position). That will teach you lots about voicing (which means "shape", essentially, to a guitarist).

Originally Posted by Daveyo

I know the major , minor and pentatonic
or do I need to learn modes?

No.

Originally Posted by Daveyo

by the way, i can read a bit but really it doesnt interest me

It should! If you have trouble learning songs by ear (and who doesn't...), you can learn a hell of a lot about songwriting by reading songbooks. That's because you need to read (and play) the vocal melody lines, and tabs almost never gives you that.

Also, the more you know about melody, and how it works with the chords, the better you get at improvising.

[ManyMartinMan]

Maybe get a good instructor for a while. Someone who can listen to and watch your playing and advise on what to do next. Every great (pick the activity: skier, baseball player, cellist, pianist, guitarist, race car driver....) had a great coach/teacher.

[Nailpicker]

Originally Posted by Daveyo

I have been playing guitar for a long time with very little progress

Playing guitar, or learning guitar and music? There is a difference. I've been playing and learning for over 50 years. Still not satisfied with my playing. Likely never will be. Still have a lot to learn. The learning is one of the things that helps my playing.

Originally Posted by Pitar

...Many people want to fast-forward something that simply cannot be accelerated, or otherwise propelled, to a state of self-gratification. If that could happen, I'd buy a bottle of it.

Make that two bottles. I'll take one.

[ADG]

Originally Posted by jseth

A basic introduction to Modern Diatonic Harmony is a great way to learn about "the way" that modern music "works"... Years ago (1977), I received an intense tutelage from a then-recent graduate of the Berklee School of Music, and the knowledge I gained shifted the way I listened, played and wrote music from that point onward!

I'm not talking about "classical" theory, but specifically Diatonic Harmony - how the chords in a given major scale fit and move around... try going online to Berklee and see if they have an introduction to Diatonic Harmony lesson plan...

As far as soloing and playing lead stuff in a cogent manner, once you have some basic harmony under your belt, you will be able to see and hear where the scales you already know can work in a marvelous fashion!

To become facile with my single note playing, I worked scales with a metronome, starting with 1/4 notes at a VERY SLOW pace (like 40 bpm or so... painfully slow! I tried to make each note as perfectly sounded as I could as I moved from 1/4 notes through 1/8 notes (both even and swing 1/8's), triplets and 16th notes... then go up one half-step (one fret) and do it again on the next root note, all the way up and then back down the fretboard... if you do this correctly, it is really very much a meditation and requires sharp focus. I would do this with several different scales for an hour or more, everyday, and after a number of months I was at the point where the notes flowed fluidly.

One thing to remember is that NO ONE wants to hear you play scales! So, once you learn these backwards and forwards, it is up to YOU to integrate them in your playing... sounding out and playing melody lines is a great way to do this... some other "tricks" are to make your lines (the series of notes you play) longer and then longer still... sing a note to yourself, whether audible or just inside your head, and play that note; once you begin with this, try to sing a line and play it at the same time... this helps keep your playing more melodic and "conversational"... after all, you are really "telling a story" with the notes you play! Lastly, reach for wider intervals between your notes - instead of just running a scale do-re-mi, try playing one note and then going a 4th higher, or a 6th higher (or whatever), and play the scale that way...

The harmony part is really NOT all that hard to understand; the soloing part is largely up to you and how hard you're willing to work it... unless you just want to play exactly like someone else, in which case just copy them as best you can.

You are moving towards a wonderful journey with your music! Have fun and let us know how it goes...

This seems like great advice. In fact, as a second year player (picked it up again after >40 years!), I'm going to adopt much of this as my practice routine as it just where I'm at at the moment and extends and strengthens how I'm approaching these things now.