Are melody notes always from the same key as the chords?

[Riverwolf]

If a song is in the key of D, will the melody notes also be from the D scale?
If transposing a song to a different key, do the melody notes also need transposed along with the chords?

I am thinking that the answer is yes, but for some reason they often sound off when I do this.

This is what I was told by someone to do when transposing melody notes:
Example is going from the key of D to the key of G.

(1)D (2)E (3)F# (4)G (5)A (6)B (7)C# (8)D

(1)G (2)A (3)B (4)C (5)D (6)E (7)F# (8)G

In this example if the note in D is #6B then when transposed to the key of G the note would be #6E.

Yes, I have basically no knowledge of music theory and am open to suggestions on a good book or website that will help but keep this in simple language,

Thanks!

[rick-slo]

Melody notes are not from any key per se. You can use any note in a melody. Naturally, there are "safer" and favored notes (tonic, dominant, subdominant) but with passing tones, leading tones, tension and release tones, you can use any chromatic note to good effect. More or less the same with chords, especially if you are going for a more modern and/or jazz sound.

[stanron]

A scale will have seven of the eleven available notes. That leaves four 'chromatic' or non scalar notes. Most melodies contain mainly notes from the scale but the other four notes can be used. They are more likely to be exceptions than rules.

[Wyllys]

Do / Re / Mi / Fa / Sol / La / Ti / Do


It's the same for any (major) key...

[EllaMom]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Melody notes are not from any key per se. You can use any note in a melody. Naturally, there are "safer" and favored notes (tonic, dominant, subdominant) but with passing tones, leading tones, tension and release tones, you can use any chromatic note to good effect. More or less the same with chords, especially if you are going for a more modern and/or jazz sound.

OK, so can I take the OP's question and kind of flip it upside down? How do you know what chords will go with each melody note? Imagine having a sheet that ONLY has the single melody notes on it, and no chord charts or names above the melody. How do you figure out the right chord(s)?

[stanron]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

OK, so can I take the OP's question and kind of flip it upside down? How do you know what chords will go with each melody note? Imagine having a sheet that ONLY has the single melody notes on it, and no chord charts or names above the melody. How do you figure out the right chord(s)?

I've developed a good memory for sounds. Most musicians do, especially those who play by ear. If you've been playing for a while you probably have too.

So I'll play the tune and in my head play back the song as I've heard it before, harmonies included. It's then a simple matter of trial and error to find which chords match what I remember. If I've not heared the tune before I'll look for it online and work from that.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

OK, so can I take the OP's question and kind of flip it upside down? How do you know what chords will go with each melody note? Imagine having a sheet that ONLY has the single melody notes on it, and no chord charts or names above the melody. How do you figure out the right chord(s)?

First, use your ears. Pretty much anything will work in certain cases with melody over chords, especially with passing notes.
However in general to most often to avoid dissonance do not use half steps. For example over a C chord (CEG) using a C# melody note would be iffy whereas over a Em chord (EGB) the C# can hang out.

[Riverwolf]

Ok. But is my example of transposing notes correct?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Ok. But is my example of transposing notes correct?

Yes. But did you play it that way?

[Runepune]

Originally Posted by EllaMom

How do you know what chords will go with each melody note? Imagine having a sheet that ONLY has the single melody notes on it, and no chord charts or names above the melody. How do you figure out the right chord(s)?

There is no one right chord, there are loads to chose from If there is only one note you can pick any chord that has that note in it (or any of the notes belonging to its tonality). The movement of the melody usually dictate some though. The most common place for the melody to land on a chord is one of the three notes in a triad (1st - 3rd - 5th). In the key of C, a C in the melody may be the root of a C, the 3rd of an Am, or the 5th of an F.

Then there's the thirds beyond the 5th: the 7, 9, 11 and 13. Of those, the first two are probably most common. Then that C may be the 7th of Dm7 or 11th (4th) of Gsus4. Can't really fit that C in as a 9th or 13th if we want to keep the chords to strictly belong to the C major scale. But one could of course slide out of that strict scale dictatorship and pick and chose from countless possibilities

Originally Posted by stanron

A scale will have seven of the eleven available notes. That leaves four 'chromatic' or non scalar notes. Most melodies contain mainly notes from the scale but the other four notes can be used. They are more likely to be exceptions than rules.

Which of the twelve don't you like?

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Ok. But is my example of transposing notes correct?

Yes. Incidentally, I assume you used the '#' symbol to indicate number. Best to save it for indicating sharp on a music forum.

[Riverwolf]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Yes. But did you play it that way?

Not yet, I am just about to try my method on a new song that was in the key of D but now is in the key of G.
Again, the chords I understand but the melody is what confuses me.

Originally Posted by stanron

Yes. Incidentally, I assume you used the '#' symbol to indicate number. Best to save it for indicating sharp on a music forum.

Maybe I am really screwed up here but I show the F and C notes in the key of D to be sharps.
And the F in the key of G to be a sharp.

[Wyllys]

I can't say exactly how I know how I identify the key a song is to be played in, but I can suss the basic relationships fairly easily.

Odds are that the first note of the song is one of the notes of a significant triad. Let's say for purposes of discussion that it is either the root (do), the third (mi) or the fifth (sol). Let us also assume that one can hear WHEN (at what point) the melody dictates a chord change. Example: Happy Birthday.

The first note can be either do, mi or sol. Choosing a comfortable pitch for singing, I find that for my voice, making the first note an A feels "right". Thus the possibilities for major triads containing the note A are:

A where our note is the root (do), F where our note is the major third (mi) or D where our note is the fifth (sol).

Moving on, we sing "Happy birthday to....you". Notice the distinct feeling of a change in harmonization upon reaching "you". Repeat the phrase a few times and listen for clues as to what is the basic triad and which position our first note occupies: root, third or fifth. Once we can "feel", "hear" or "reason" which position the significant note (or notes) occupies, we know our key for the tune.

Sing it again and try to feel the relationship of each note to the others:

.........................to..............
.............................you........
.........birth...........................
Happy.........day......................

We should be able to hear/infer from the "triadic" (non-linear) interval between "day" and "to" that it is a fourth. The basic major triad stretched Do to Do' contains:

Major third : Do > Mi
Minor third : Mi > Sol
Fourth: Sol > Do'

Thus our chosen pitch of A shows up as Sol (5th) and the chord thus D. It then follows that the other basic chords of a I/IV/V progression are G and A. DGA
From here it is easy enough to just use trial and error to ascertain which of the three basic chords harmonize to our taste.

OK, this is an over-simplification, but for purposes of beginning ear training it will suffice. Other starting points require slightly different applications, but we have to start somewhere, then add other instances to our experiential library in comparison with our initial examples and succeeding variants. We start with a simple I/IV/V progression (Happy B'day) and work toward or through "As Time Goes By": IIm/V/IIm/V/I. Additionally, we can add nuance and subtlety by incorporating relative minors, but...one step at a time.

I write this totally in retrospect, hoping that it may be of use to someone. I came by it totally through a life where music...listening, singing, playing...was an integral part of daily life, so much so that I segued directly into the life of a professional albeit self-taught musician once out on my own.

[Runepune]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Not yet, I am just about to try my method on a new song that was in the key of D but now is in the key of G.
Again, the chords I understand but the melody is what confuses me.

Maybe I am really screwed up here but I show the F and C notes in the key of D to be sharps.
And the F in the key of G to be a sharp.

Just use the circle of fifths. To go from the key of D to the key of G is one step counter clockwise on that circle. So, for any note in the key of D, exchange it with the note one step counter clockwise.

(Don't mix #'s and b's though. E.g. if the key is E, use G#, not Ab)

[stanron]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

In this example if the note in D is #6B then when transposed to the key of G the note would be #6E.

This was the bit I was referring to. The rest of the # signs are fine.