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  #31  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:41 PM
EllaMom EllaMom is offline
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Tony, what you wrote resonates with me:

"...it is better to break that up into 4 15 minute sessions because we tend to get mentally tired if we force ourselves to focus intently for too long, and gradually build up to maybe half hour sessions over time..."

I generally practice about an hour a day. But that might take me 90 minutes, because I get up several times for a short break. It really helps. Kind of like a "reset" button. I am frequently pleased at how a difficult passage becomes easier with a short break in between.

I don't use a metronome. I tried, but didn't get much value from it, frankly. And it was a hindrance for sections of a song that I intentionally choose to slow down.

I had a teacher, for a short duration, who demanded two things: use a metronome, and memorize the song ASAP. Well.....as I said, a teacher of short duration. Those techniques are perfect for some, but not for me.
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  #32  
Old 07-15-2017, 07:27 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Originally Posted by EllaMom View Post
Tony, what you wrote resonates with me:

"...it is better to break that up into 4 15 minute sessions because we tend to get mentally tired if we force ourselves to focus intently for too long, and gradually build up to maybe half hour sessions over time..."

I generally practice about an hour a day. But that might take me 90 minutes, because I get up several times for a short break. It really helps. Kind of like a "reset" button. I am frequently pleased at how a difficult passage becomes easier with a short break in between.

I don't use a metronome. I tried, but didn't get much value from it, frankly. And it was a hindrance for sections of a song that I intentionally choose to slow down.

I had a teacher, for a short duration, who demanded two things: use a metronome, and memorize the song ASAP. Well.....as I said, a teacher of short duration. Those techniques are perfect for some, but not for me.
As I mentioned my post, I only use a metronome when I am working on some specific thing that has tricky timing. I will set the metronome really slow to prevent me from speeding up so I can get the thing down.

As I mentioned, I really don't have any particular opinions about whether somebody should use a metronome or not. Sudnow felt that our bodies have more accurate time than a metronome. Some people really feel strongly that folks should use a metronome when practicing. Some don't. For me, it is "use the right tool for the job", so on rare occasions, a metronome is (for me) the right tool for the job. For somebody else, it may never be the right tool, while for somebody else, it may always be the right tool.

What I REALLY don't like is folks using a metronome in performance. A lot of pop music sounds like that to me, with that constant whacking drum sound or people slapping and knocking on their guitars. We really do have natural rhythm and shouldn't need that, except maybe some folks in the practice room. I suppose that is a matter of personal taste, since rhythm seems to be more important than melody these days.

I practice both guitar and piano, and tend to interleave these over the course of the day in small sessions. Like you, that works well for me too. For me, it is also a good way to get in practice on both instruments.

However, in doing this, I really need a goal for each instrument. What I am focusing on is learning specific pieces of music for each instrument. That makes it easy to know exactly what I am going to do for each instrument, each day. At this point, I choose pieces of music from which I can learn something useful. On guitar, it is learning how professional arrangers do that. On piano, it is the development of technique for playing the style of music that interests me. I find that with this approach keeps me focused, rather than just drifting and getting nowhere.

Tony
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  #33  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:03 AM
Martie Martie is offline
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Not a fan of metronomes either. I guess I was lucky as I got to play with some really good drummers early on. I also like to play with feeling, slowing down and speeding up occasionally (subtly). I think metronomes can be useful for some in the beginning, especially those who really struggle with rhythm etc. but I honestly don't think anything beats learning your favourite records and playing along with them (and playing with others soon as you get the chance).

I'm also a huge believer in practicing/learning in 20 minute bursts, even if I'm in full flow as we digest things so much better when we (and this is the 'sequence' I guess I use...) play> >pause>process>play>etc...

Four books that I found really useful when they appeared are:

Zen Guitar by Philip Toshio Sudo

Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner (also includes a great Meditation CD)

The Inner Game of Music by Barry Green

The Secrets of Musical Confidence by Andrew Evans

Of course, there will be others but these type of teachings are excellent/essential companions to the less cerebral (equally essential) elements of playing like technique, theory etc. as, to me at least, there's nothing worse than a technically accomplished player who has no 'feeling' (which is even worse when they have no taste!&#128521
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  #34  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:14 AM
Martie Martie is offline
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Actually, I'm such a hypocrite as just remembered that I have in fact been using a metronome recently (on my ipad!) as I've been brushing up on some theory/technique and I've been using it to improve my picking speed/fluency etc.😇
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  #35  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:53 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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Actually, I'm such a hypocrite as just remembered that I have in fact been using a metronome recently (on my ipad!) as I've been brushing up on some theory/technique and I've been using it to improve my picking speed/fluency etc.😇
Nothing wrong with that. Use it when it is useful and not when it is not. You did recommend some good books, though I had not heard of the last one in your list.

Tony
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  #36  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:08 PM
Martie Martie is offline
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Precisely, no point in being precious either way, if it works for you use it etc. Yes, that last book would have also come out in the mid to late 90s and I recently re-bought a copy for my son, which I will try read again when I get the chance. Can t remember there being much in there that isn't in those other three but always worth doing a bit of revision😊
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  #37  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:41 PM
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The original poster stated that slowing the beat down, focusing on the difficult measure, using a metronome, and repeating 10 times worked for her. That's a great way to go. I also like re-trying a piece at odd, unscheduled times when I get / make free time. Sticking to the same learning routine is good but sometimes it bogs you down and you almost automatically find it not so easy to learn every time you get to it. Other things I like to do and I teach:

- really get to know the song or piece before you try to learn it on guitar

- try to guess the key of the song or some of the chords/notes before trying to play it (develop your ear)

- as Piper said in his/her post, try to learn the difficult section from the end of the measure too. See if you can get it all together (meet in the middle) I've learned some lead solos that way.

- if it's taking way too long to learn just one section, just play the part you know, for a long time, and then go back to try to relearn the hard section some time later. I learned Classical Gas that way. Took me two years but I learned it. Getting so comfortable with the part of the piece that I was able to learn that I could do it eyes closed, relaxed me and made me more open to learning the hard part.The hard part seemed much easier then.

- not sure about the meditation part, but I do sometimes mentally replay (visualize?) the piece while relaxing in bed or during other quiet times.

- youtube videos can easily be "A-B'd) so you can isolate the difficult part second by second and force-feed the notes into yourself. Nothing wrong with learning a piece note by note, just the way it was recorded and released. Then of course adapt or arrange it to your liking.
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  #38  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:08 PM
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I must be an odd ball as I'll work on something I'm not getting yet until I can't stay awake......
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  #39  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:13 PM
Martie Martie is offline
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I've been there TBman, and still do sometimes, I just don't make a habit off it (partly because I'm usually too busy to get that much time!), but whatever works for you😊
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  #40  
Old 07-21-2017, 10:56 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
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One trick that a guitar teacher shared with me that was amazing for me when I was learning an instrumental was this:

When learning a new piece, start with the last measure of the song and play that measure until you have it down. Then start with the beginning of the next to last measure and play that until you have it down and add in the last measure.

You work your way through the song that way until you get to the first measure. Why this method? Well, when you always start with the first measure and move forward your brain is always going from the known to the unknown which is stressful on the brain. When you reverse it, you have set up a learning situation where the brain goes from the unknown to the known. The brain relaxes and you learn the piece more easily and remember it better.

I thought it sounded crazy at first but it really does work.

Sometimes the simple things and the crazy sounding things can be just the tricks that help with the learning process.

Best,
Jayne
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  #41  
Old 07-21-2017, 10:59 AM
Myvalk Myvalk is offline
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Originally Posted by jaymarsch View Post
One trick that a guitar teacher shared with me that was amazing for me when I was learning an instrumental was this:



When learning a new piece, start with the last measure of the song and play that measure until you have it down. Then start with the beginning of the next to last measure and play that until you have it down and add in the last measure.



You work your way through the song that way until you get to the first measure. Why this method? Well, when you always start with the first measure and move forward your brain is always going from the known to the unknown which is stressful on the brain. When you reverse it, you have set up a learning situation where the brain goes from the unknown to the known. The brain relaxes and you learn the piece more easily and remember it better.



I thought it sounded crazy at first but it really does work.



Sometimes the simple things and the crazy sounding things can be just the tricks that help with the learning process.



Best,

Jayne


I'm gonna try that. I'll keep y'all posted.
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  #42  
Old 07-21-2017, 04:07 PM
Nailpicker Nailpicker is offline
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Chet Atkin's tip was, " Get your guitar and go to your bedroom and practice 10 hours a day".
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  #43  
Old 07-22-2017, 08:32 AM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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Originally Posted by Nailpicker View Post
Chet Atkin's tip was, " Get your guitar and go to your bedroom and practice 10 hours a day".
Hmmm. I figured someone had to beat me to it. I think I tallied 1500 hours my first year. It was all I did outside of a 40-hour work week. I was single, 17, infatuated with guitar and lived alone. I played every Saturday at a local laundromat and the ladies were motherly, doting and encouraging. I lived to learn the guitar.
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  #44  
Old 07-22-2017, 08:38 AM
mattbn73 mattbn73 is offline
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That's the problem I have. I work on part that needs work and if I don't get it right away I get disgusted put my guitar away
It may seem a simple point, but getting past this type of thinking is the most important aspect of music study IMO, especially for ADULT students. Learn to see practice as its own entity, completely separate from "playing" music. They aren't the same thing at all. First, Learn to Practice https://g.co/kgs/AUJrUo

Learn to see and hear the things you play/practice almost in third person, as if they are someone else, and work on problems without judgment. Release expectations for timelines etc., and let go FOREVER the MYTH of linear/progressive/gradual progress. The most important improvements a player makes are very often mini-breakthroughs, as opposed to a gradual improvement. Feels like: nothing, nothing, nothing , and then one day it's just there , almost like a gift.

Regarding more general comments on practicing sections/measures etc: use common sense approaches and remember to play it by ear in developing practice routines. The "measure" that you need to work on may be a 4 or 8 measure PHRASE, depending on the tune. Then, in the same tune, there may be a half-measure phrase that you have to drill over and over. Practice the hard parts the most, and leave the parts which you can already play alone, at least until you start putting things back together.

Consider the overall form and structure . Repeated sections don't really need extra practice just because they come up in another measure later, with your "one measure at a time" practice drill. Also, in addition to individual SECTIONS, consider TRANSITIONS BETWEEN sections to be basically their own "section" to be practiced. Very often you can play individual components but mess them up when you put them back together. Probably a transition problem...
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  #45  
Old 07-23-2017, 03:42 PM
Nailpicker Nailpicker is offline
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Quote:
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Chet Atkin's tip was, " Get your guitar and go to your bedroom and practice 10 hours a day".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitar View Post
Hmmm. I figured someone had to beat me to it. I think I tallied 1500 hours my first year. It was all I did outside of a 40-hour work week. I was single, 17, infatuated with guitar and lived alone. I played every Saturday at a local laundromat and the ladies were motherly, doting and encouraging. I lived to learn the guitar.
Many, many years ago I saw him in concert. He was remarkable. Someone in an upper balcony was making a little too much noise. All he did without missing a beat was turn and stare at the offender and from there on all was quiet. A little later a string broke on his guitar mid-song. Again, without missing a beat he simply shifted his position on the neck and kept playing on without any negative impact to the sound of the song. The audience couldn't even hear a change. Some guitarists jump around, some pat themselves on the back. He was so quiet, humble and unassuming, yet quietly commanded the stage as he commanded the guitar.
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