Artist Models

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by PieterK

Okay, tangent: why exactly does this Ed Sheeran guy keep showing up all over the place? I still have no real idea about who he is or why I should care.

Should I?

I think they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel to come up with another Irish Guitar player. I saw Ed play a Beatles song on the Beatles Anniversary concert awhile back. He did his own rendition, and I wanted to puke. On top of it all He wasn't even born during the Beatles Day, I think tributes should be from peers. JMHO.
What is it with people that think messed up hair is appealing.

Dan

[DanPanther]

Originally Posted by drplayer

I was only speaking in reference to the Clapton, which is the guitar you seemed to specifically address in your original post. And again, with regard to the Clapton 000-28EC, you are incorrect. However, it's not worth disputing, as it is apparent you have a "thing" against artist series guitars, so no amount of discussion will likely change your mind...and that's okay.

Can you support the claim, "I am incorrect" so that I may publicly apologize ?

Is that fair ?

I suppose if Clapton said it, it's true right. What do you expect Martin, or Clapton to say. "Oh it's not really like his guitar, we just want him to sign on for a big payday and more profits for us". Come on.
And yes you are correct, I feel it's cheesy to buy a guitar endorsed by any celebrity. I think anyone should be able to understand, that a signature will not improve you or the guitar one iota, all it will do is improve corporate bottom line profit. JMHO.

What makes anyone think, Keith Urban, Eric Clapton, or Esteban are not all in the same group. I think that is a major problem, that celebrities are given above average credit, in about anything they wish to endorse just because they are celebrities.

For arguments sake, even if the claims are 100% accurate, WHY pay a thousand dollars more, for an EC endorsement, will it make you play better or appear cooler on stage ? NO ! it will only make you $1,000.00 poorer. But if that is what you want, more power to you. I just feel it's a ruse to get your money.

Can you give me one example of a benefit.

Dan

[PieterK]

Originally Posted by DesolationAngel

I really don't understand the slightly negative air towards him or the guitar. Apparently he didn't need a Collings, Bourgeois, Goodall or Santa Cruz to make his music...

I know little enough about him to be unable to foster any real feeling whatsoever, negative or otherwise. But I will admit that my Suspicion Radar® pings when I see his picture and name--not just here either, but in my local record store. There's a bit of a whiff of the Marketing Department about him, and the photos. That makes me a little skeptical.

Moreover, usually, with endorsers, I tend to at least have heard of them. He I had not, until I found myself re-immersed in the world of acoustic guitars. Last time I checked in, he didn't exist as an artist.

Originally Posted by DesolationAngel

(And, no, I couldn't hum any of his tunes... ok, part of one, but I didn't realize it was him. I'm not a 'fan' but I do read and I know how to work the goooooogles. I've seen him around a lot, so thought it might be worth seeing what it was all about).

I thought one of those kind of comments might show up.

I use Bing.

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by PieterK

I use Bing.

My point was not, 'you should have looked him up', but more, 'I didn't know who he was either... so figured, being as how I see him everywhere, that I should try find out'. Secondary point being, I'm not a 'fan' of Ed Sheeran.

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by PieterK

[...]I will admit that my Suspicion Radar® pings when I see his picture and name--not just here either, but in my local record store. There's a bit of a whiff of the Marketing Department about him, and the photos. That makes me a little skeptical. Moreover, usually, with endorsers, I tend to at least have heard of them. He I had not, until I found myself re-immersed in the world of acoustic guitars. Last time I checked in, he didn't exist as an artist.

And none of those staggering data points I posted made any difference? Millions of album streams? Millions of albums sold? Grammy nominations? Endless schlepping around gigs honing his craft? Self-funding his early releases? Nothing? Phew, Tough crowd...

[PieterK]

Originally Posted by DesolationAngel

And none of those staggering data points I posted made any difference? Millions of album streams? Millions of albums sold? Grammy nominations? Endless schlepping around gigs honing his craft? Self-funding his early releases? Nothing? Phew, Tough crowd...

Surprisingly perhaps, not really.

My fortress of cultural filters is formidable! I have patience, rely on aforementioned radar, and let a convoluted, graduated network of trusted sources do my filtering for me. What remains tends to be worth knowing, and I almost never regret my choices. Same goes for film (big film fan), visual art, literature, etc.

This forum is part of that structure now too. If someone here is a big John Fahey fan, or a Fred McDowell fan, and recommends me something, I will take that seriously.

It helps that I do not watch TV, don't listen to radio, avoid almost all "mainstream" online outlets, etc.

By the way, no ill will intended with the search engine comment. I was being vaguely jocular.

[stevieboy]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

To buy an instrument with someone else's name on it (apart from the maker's) would make me a "fan" rather than a performer in my own right.

If that's the way you see it, that's the way it is, for you. There is no shortage of guitar models so anything that narrows them down when shopping can be useful!

But consider the fact that Pete Townshend performs with an Eric Clapton signature Stratocaster. Townsend is indeed a Clapton fan, but also I think it's safe to say he's a performer in his own right.

[DesolationAngel]

Can't argue with cultural filtering... we all do it to varying degrees. But that just means 'we know what we like and we like people who like what we like'. There is a lot of music out there and barely any of it has universal appeal. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's no good... For that many people to have spent money listening to Sheeran has to mean something and cannot, surely, be denied? (What it means is debate, perhaps, for another thread).

And, for what it's worth, no ill will from me either. Enjoying the debate (in parts )

[futboljim]

Originally Posted by DesolationAngel

And none of those staggering data points I posted made any difference? Millions of album streams? Millions of albums sold? Grammy nominations? Endless schlepping around gigs honing his craft? Self-funding his early releases? Nothing? Phew, Tough crowd...

Yeah, it's odd to me when I see the thoughts that Pieter shared about Ed sheeran. I've read similar things about other young singers/artists when they seemingly burst onto the scene.

I think most detractors would be surprised at just how much ability and work ethic guys like this have, if they could somehow get past their dislike of the style, they might even find something useful to help their own playing, too. Kind of like cross training in the guitar - I'm glad to have found benefit from this sort of thing.

Oh well, pretty sure not many minds will be changed by what I've written, but it felt good to share

[M19]

I have a Steve Howe 00-18 (limited, numbered) that was designed to be much like his original 60's 00-18. The MOP signature on the fretboard doesn't "deface" the guitar any more than any other fret markers do. You like 'em or you don't.

[hovishead]

I was torn between a Sheryl Crow Gibson and a Martin HD-35 once. I think not wanting a sig model helped me make my final decision ( a little ).

[HHP]

I don't have a problem with them, except that they often go a little far in selecting artists with no special skills in guitar itself.

I do like the ones where the artist is a player of some repute, and produces a guitar that has design features the artist thinks would be desirable. Examples might be..

Martin Norman Blake models
Santa Cruz Tony Rice models
Taylor Dan Crary model
Bourgeois Martin Simpson model

Something like a Martin Rosanne Cash, no so much.

Basically I can appreciate the collaborative more than the commemorative.

[drplayer]

Originally Posted by DanPanther

Can you support the claim, "I am incorrect" so that I may publicly apologize ?

Is that fair ?

I suppose if Clapton said it, it's true right. What do you expect Martin, or Clapton to say. "Oh it's not really like his guitar, we just want him to sign on for a big payday and more profits for us". Come on.
And yes you are correct, I feel it's cheesy to buy a guitar endorsed by any celebrity. I think anyone should be able to understand, that a signature will not improve you or the guitar one iota, all it will do is improve corporate bottom line profit. JMHO.

What makes anyone think, Keith Urban, Eric Clapton, or Esteban are not all in the same group. I think that is a major problem, that celebrities are given above average credit, in about anything they wish to endorse just because they are celebrities.

For arguments sake, even if the claims are 100% accurate, WHY pay a thousand dollars more, for an EC endorsement, will it make you play better or appear cooler on stage ? NO ! it will only make you $1,000.00 poorer. But if that is what you want, more power to you. I just feel it's a ruse to get your money.

Can you give me one example of a benefit.

Dan

Dan,

All you have to do is perform a few Google or YouTube searches and you will find plenty of examples of Clapton playing his signature guitars...not publicity photos, but concert photos/videos. Is it really easier to believe that Martin mixes up special batches of the same guitar just for Clapton's use? What would be the benefit of that? Also, when I took the Martin Guitar factory tour this past summer, the tour guide also told us that Clapton gets his signature models right off the shelf (but I suppose that's a lie too and just part of the conspiracy?). I don't doubt for a second that they are set-up especially for him by his techs and some fitted with pick-ups for performance purposes, but who doesn't/wouldn't do that?

As for the "extra $1000.00", go to Martin's web-site, and using their "build your own" function, build a guitar to the same specs as the Clapton and see how much "cheaper" it is. You will pay more without his signature, not less. A 000-28EC, is not just a 000-28 with Clapton's signature on the 20th fret. If you think it is, you need to check out the specifications. At the end of the day it doesn't matter to me. His signature doesn't improve the guitar, but the unique set of specifications does IMO, and his signature doesn't improve my playing, but having a guitar that is a pure joy to play sure does. I've had a Lowden F23C, a Collings Custom OM1G, and a Martin OM-18 Authentic 1933--each of them non-signature and considerably more expensive than my 000-28EC. They're no longer around, but my 16-year old 000-28EC still is. Not because of the signature, but because it's just that good of a guitar for me...

Here's a few videos I found in about 30-seconds of searching...believe what you choose.

[DesolationAngel]

Originally Posted by HHP

Basically I can appreciate the collaborative more than the commemorative.

Yeah... that's a good way to look at it. I love that my Tweedy was Martin's first 'all FSC' guitar. I love that aspect of it. I love that it was a collaborative effort between Martin, Tweedy and John Woodland (Wilco's luthier and the designer of the 'Mastery Bridge'). Woodland had this to say about the design of the 00-DB;

"Knowing what Jeff likes and dislikes in guitars, we sat down with about 20 different acoustics and I just kept handing him guitars and asking him questions like "how does this feel in your right hand when fingerpicking" and so on. I took specs from Jeff’s comments and based it around a deep-bodied, 14-fret 00 size as I always find Jeff acclimating between smaller bodied guitars and guitars that produce a deeper tone. I worked with Chris Thomas at Martin on the specs and it went back and forth for over a year. Jeff loved the idea of doing a 100% sustainable FSC Certified guitar, and after sustainable guitar tonewoods were all in the news last summer the idea was pushed through. We're all very happy how the guitar turned out."

So, collaborative and unique. I didn't get mine just because it says 'Jeff Tweedy' on the label but the fact that he was involved definitely led me to the guitar in the first place. Of course, if it had sounded and played truly badly then I wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole...

[D28A1941]

I'd purchase an artist model if I was thinking of building a custom guitar with similar specs. It likely be cheaper.