Somogyi guitar

[Cedar.]

Just visually, I hate the broken rosette look and pointy headstock and the bridge is wacky as well.

[rogthefrog]

I don't think it's rude to mention a price. Maybe gauche. But not rude. It's OK to wonder.

What I do find rude and petty is the endless barbs and innuendo directed at builder x (for having the gall to charge 3 to 10 times more than builder y, who does s/he think s/he is, s/he probably thinks his/her poop don't stink, etc) or owners of builder x guitars (for having more money than sense, or for being pretentious or showing off their wealth with trophy guitars, or not being smart enough to see a $400 Yamaha works just as well, or not being worthy of the instrument, etc).

In 2014, it's easier than ever to find out what something costs. Builders usually publish their prices (Ervin does, pretty sure Sexauer does, Wingert does, Manzer does with her pre-owned guitars, etc etc).

The market determines pricing. Traugott, Manzer, Ervin, Wingert and many others charge 5 digits for a build. People who value having one of their guitars pay those prices. That means the guitars are worth that much. End of discussion. Maybe not to you specifically for whatever reason, but to buyers they are. There's nothing presumptuous about these builders pricing guitars this way--they don't pretend to be better, they just make instruments in high demand that command these prices. And there's nothing presumptuous about a buyer who plops $30K on one of Ervin's guitars, even if they can barely play. They want a Somogyi because they want one, and if they can swing it, great for them (and for Ervin).

None of this has much to do with the instrument's quality, at least not linearly. Is a Somogy 6 times better than a Yamamoto? 10 times better than a Halcyon? Maybe. Maybe not. It's a dumb question because it can't be answered. My cheap Kalamazoo is infinitely better to me than a top of the line Huss and Dalton, because it works for me, and I've never played a H&D I liked the sound or neck of. Very nice guitars. Not for me. Their practical "quality" (economists call this "utility value", I think) is exactly zero. But if someone posts a NGD gushing about their H&D, am I going to say "lol ur an idiot my guitar costs 90% less and its way better lol and also ur momma is fat lol"? No. Because its's rude and stupid and childish.

And one last thing--all these people are highly skilled and talented. They spend a lot of time fashioning the neck just so, inlaying the material perfectly, voicing the top beautifully, etc. If you want to hire me as an employee or consultant, it's going to cost you a lot more than some random nerd off elance or TaskRabbit. Whether that price is worth it to you is your business alone. I don't get offended if you decide I'm too expensive or not worth my hourly fee--many people are willing to pay it. By the same token, you shouldn't be offended when I tell you my price.

Another last thing--my car (blue book: about 50% of my Yamamoto's sticker price) takes me to the grocery store. My Yamamoto takes me places that only exist in my head. Many people spend in one day, every day, what I spend at Starbucks in one year. I make my own lunch and coffee, drive a 13 year old car, and play really nice guitars. I'm cool with that. I have no problem with someone driving a new BMW every two years as long as they stfu about my guitars. Easy.

Why so many people can't help passing judgment about how other people spend their money and what they are entitled to liking, wanting or enjoying, I'll never understand.

[steveh]

Originally Posted by Jimbolaya

Anyone know how the work of his apprentices stacks up against Ervin's work?

That depends on the apprentice. They each do pretty different stuff. Purely in terms of sound, some are closer to Ervin's guitars than others.

Sonically, there is something special about Ervin's guitars though. I think most of that is to do around the fact he builds very light indeed. Some of his apprentices are very young and can't afford to have a guitar fold up on them, not that I've ever seen that happen to a Somogyi..

Cheers,
Steve

[nikie]

I'm just courious. Did you find the righ answer and bought a Somogyi or any of his aprentice guitars or still looking for the real truth, Kurtyy?
We are closer to the end of the year and it seems that there's lots of nice guitars you can try or buy.
Hapy new year!

[00-28]

FIRST DATE




Girl -- " This is where you live?"
Guy -- " but honey, I have a Somogyi."

..............Mike

Originally Posted by MBE

Go and find some of his guitars to play. It will become self-evident whether they are worth it to you.

Originally Posted by Byrdmann

Not so true... There are those that wouldn't particular appreciate his guitars--whether or not they had the resources to buy one. And there are yet others (like me) who believe that beyond a certain amount of money, what you are ultimately paying for is artistry, more than improved materials, function or tone. To some, that artistry adds value...to others, it does not.

Byrdmann, that's what MBE is saying. Note the word "whether."

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Ervin used to have bumper-stickers available that said:

"My other guitar is a Somogyi".

Ha! I need one of those.

Fortunately, I haven't found the sound clips I've heard of his guitars to really be what I'm looking for, and I'm not really into his "designs", either.

So, as long as I can avoid PLAYING one, I'll probably never be tempted to buy one.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Jimbolaya

Anyone know how the work of his apprentices stacks up against Ervin's work?

Tim McKnight took one of Somogyi's classes. I love Tim's guitars, especially his "post-Somogyi" ones.

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

The market determines pricing.

Yes, and I am constantly amazed at how many people don't understand that basic principle. Related to that are the people who ask, "Does that guitar really sound x times better than the other?" as if tone were objective and each dollar represented a unit of tone.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Related to that are the people who ask, "Does that guitar really sound x times better than the other?" as if tone were objective and each dollar represented a unit of tone.

If THAT ("bang for the buck") were the correct measure, we'd all be listening to the most basic of stereo systems and playing the entry-level guitars (which today are pretty darned good).

[ukejon]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

Tim McKnight took one of Somogyi's classes. I love Tim's guitars, especially his "post-Somogyi" ones.

So did Mark Hatcher.

[_zedagive]

If their sound is superior, I would expect to see some successful musicians playing one. Anybody know of one?

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by _zedagive

If their sound is superior, I would expect to see some successful musicians playing one. Anybody know of one?

Michael Hedges
Ed Gerhard
Pat Donohue
Alex de Grassi
Will Ackerman

And many more.

You will likely not see huge touring acts play Somogyis, like Katy Perry or the Foo Fighters or U2, because there's no point in bringing a Somogyi to a show where its subtleties will be drowned out by a big band *and* they're more likely to get damaged in touring trucks. Even successful artists like U2 keep the irreplaceable stuff at home.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by _zedagive

If their sound is superior, I would expect to see some successful musicians playing one. Anybody know of one?

According to DreamGuitars, Martin Simpson plays one.

Not that I know who Martin Simpson is.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

<<snip>>

Not that I know who Martin Simpson is.

Anyone that plays guitar (and/or is a player/singer-songwriter) should know Martin's music.

Period.

A little thread-drift for your pleasure...

Martin w/June Tabor: