Somogyi guitar

[00-28]

Originally Posted by MikeD

People can complain all they want about the price of his guitars. It does little more than simply add to his mystique, since all the flaming, insults and complaints don't add any money to your bank account or nor do they drive the cost & demand of his instruments down.

I haven't seen any complaining. I have not seen any flaming or insults. It's just as Long Jon said,

Is there an unwritten rule about it being too vulgar to mention just how much some luthier-built instruments cost ?

I find it very interesting to know what some of these guitars cost and why.
.....Mike

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by 00-28

I haven't seen any complaining. I have not seen any flaming or insults. It's just as Long Jon said,

Do a quick search here and you will find plenty of what I'm talking about. This thread just hasn't spiraled down that dirt road yet.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by 00-28

Nothing wrong changing the direction of the thread. Price is a very important factor when discussing guitars. It may not matter to some of those who believe they are above it all, but it matters to me. .....Mike

Jeez, Mike, I was just making a point. No need to throw around such inuendo. I certainly hope that I don't come off as being "above it all".

[00-28]

Sorry Bill, don't think you are above it all, but mentioning the price of a guitar is not, "people jumping into a thread changing the direction of the discussion" . .....Mike

[drplayer]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

...and any instrument that comes from his shop will be not only a thing of beauty, but a guitar with a tone to die for.

Well, that's subjective of course, but he certainly does seem to be on a lot of "if I hit the lottery" lists. I've not seen a Somogyi that I personally liked the looks of--and at that price point, appearance matters, because the pain-staking detail & artistry are likely the greatest contributors to the cost. But then, I lean much more toward traditionally styled builds & tone, so I'd rather spend my $30-40-50K (if I had it to spend) on a vintage Martin or Gibson. Regardless, his guitars are works of art for sure, and for that I definitely appreciate his skill, artistry & vision. You don't have to like Monet to recognize Water Lilies as a masterpiece. For those who dream of owning a Somogyi and have the resources to do it...how awesome it is that your dream can be fulfilled...CONGRATS!

[Tone Gopher]

Originally Posted by 00-28

OK, I can see that. But how does one get to work so they can pay for the new guitar? .....Mike

I drive a 10 year-old car and don't keep dumping $$$ down the rat hole of new cars. I know others that buy a new car every 2-3 years. Ah well, someone has to eat the depreciation, but it won't be me.

I know a LOT of musicians whose instruments are of far greater value than their cars. In fact, that's often part of the definition of a "working musician".

[brucefulton]

Originally Posted by Long Jon

I have never seen a Somogyi guitar. Only ever heard of them on the AGF.

I find it interesting that there seems to be some sort of cut-off point on the forum, above which, the price is never actually mentioned.

We all know how much a Martin Authentic is, that seems to be about the upper limit of price-naming around here.

Is there an unwritten rule about it being too vulgar to mention just how much some luthier-built instruments cost ?

Somogyi publishes his current prices. You can download a pricing sheet at http://www.esomogyi.com/prices.html. I'm not sure why all the secrecy.

[nikie]

Originally Posted by kurtyy

Thanks miller, do you have any comment about back and side for his guitar, like BRW or Koa or any others, thank

I really loved all the Somogyi guitars that I was lucky to play, amazing instruments, in my opinion the best, with an special design and modern sound. They are really personal and always apreciated for its quality in general.

If you are a pure fingerpicker who play delicately and looking for a guitar to use in all styles, really well balanced and responsive and with more of everything, go for the OM and in my opinion with Brazilian and Spruce.

If you need more bass and trebles, a fatter sound but still balanced, you will find them in the big Md or in the SJ. The one's that are from the end of the 90' or early 2000' in my opinion have a big sound and fat trebles while the new one's have this big sound but more balanced in all registers and still responsive to light touch.

The designed the Md to improve the sitting position of the player and I consider that the MD with segmented rosette and fretboart inlays is the best design asociated with him.

I love the Md with Brazilian and spruce to fingerpick but my prefered one is the SJ model with Brazilian or maple, depending on your style.
The SJ is a big model but really comfortable to play standing or sitting, with a narrower body, more confortable size than the Md and with the same sound.
The SJ with maple in it's back and sides is a winner. Really good to play Jazz and very versatile for the rhythmic player in all styles, try it...

I never played a Somogyi with Koa or other woods. I read a letter in his blog speaking about the unique qualities of the Wenge but I consider it a dangerous wood becouse is really easy to crack and don't want to have the extra risc in one of his guitars. Don't like the use of Mahogany in big body modern guitars. The incredible African Blackwood is really good but it weighs too much and is rigid. Just my opinion.

Don't have any doubt about Somogyi guitars, they are and will be on top of the luthier's world like a Martin is in the vintage market and ... unique.

[MBE]

Price really does come up a lot when discussing Ervin's guitars. The market has shown, over 3+ decades now, that his guitars are worth the price to the players who buy them.

Go and find some of his guitars to play. It will become self-evident whether they are worth it to you.

[Byrdmann]

Originally Posted by MBE

Price really does come up a lot when discussing Ervin's guitars. The market has shown, over 3+ decades now, that his guitars are worth the price to the players who buy them.

Very true...

Originally Posted by MBE

Go and find some of his guitars to play. It will become self-evident whether they are worth it to you.

Not so true... There are those that wouldn't particular appreciate his guitars--whether or not they had the resources to buy one. And there are yet others (like me) who believe that beyond a certain amount of money, what you are ultimately paying for is artistry, more than improved materials, function or tone. To some, that artistry adds value...to others, it does not.

[psychojohn]

hopefully not creating the spiral we're trying to avoid here, but I've got to say that my ear has had to develop considerably to appreciate the tonal values and differences between various guitars. On his web, his build begins at $31,000 for the base model and goes up from there. 2 years ago, I couldn't imagine what would make any guitar that valuable and sure couldn't hear the difference on a sound clip between a 30K vs 10K vs 5 K instrument (They all sounded real good making the cheaper one the better value.

I can now hear some (probably not all) of those differences and differences between $500 vs $1500 vs $3700 guitars so I now understand why some would pay the money for a more expensive guitar. Was critical (not critical, but dumbfounded and confused really) of those spending 10K or more, but not so much now that my ears have improved.

It seems like its an ongoing journey of tonal appreciation that has to be followed in order to understand such pricing.

John

[sfden1]

Originally Posted by 00-28

Sorry Bill, don't think you are above it all, but mentioning the price of a guitar is not, "people jumping into a thread changing the direction of the discussion" . .....Mike

Mike, I think your missing the point. When someone mentions the price of the really expensive builds, whether it's a Somogyi, Traugott, Thompson, Walker, or whoever, there will invariably be one or two or three folks who will jump in saying things such as "no guitar can be worth that", "you can't possibly hear the difference between that and my $300 Yamaha". "those guitars are for collectors, not players", "anyone who pays that amount is just a cork sniffer", or similar such nonsense.

The conversation often degenerates from there, and there have been many similar threads. Why go there? It's enough to know a Somogyi is really expensive (at least it is to me), but if you really want to know what they cost new it's easy enough to go on his website, he posts his prices. Used, there are a few on the market to give you an idea.

[Jimbolaya]

Never played one, but know he has had lots of apprentices who are very successful in their own rights, kostal, fredell, matsuda, etc.
Anyone know how the work of his apprentices stacks up against Ervin's work?

[sfden1]

Originally Posted by Jimbolaya

Anyone know how the work of his apprentices stacks up against Ervin's work?

Not sure what you mean by "stacks up against".

Somogyi periodically gives what amounts to a master class to other luthiers. From the comments I've read from some of them I get the very strong impression that he isn't at all interested in creating Somogyi clones, but in helping builders to find their own voice, and/or get better at what they do. I would imagine the same philosophy applies to his apprentices as well.

So a guitar by one of his apprentices (I'm assuming we're talking about a former apprentice that has gone out on his own) likely will not sound or look like a Somogyi, but it is likely to be an excellent instrument in it's own right and reflect the skills of it's builder. Matsuda and Kostal, for instance, enjoy a reputation for doing that very well.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by Jimbolaya

he work of his apprentices stacks up against Ervin's work?

Some of Ervin's apprentices build downright excellent guitars. The names include Michi Matsuda, Mario Beauregard, Jason Kostal, Ray Kraut, Hiro Ebata, and others. None are clones but there is plenty of overlap between some of his apprentices and Ervin's work.