How much do you believe in guitar player "naturals"

[Kitkatjoe]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Something similar comes up once in awhile but I have been pondering on this again.

Myself? I think that at most anything in life, some folks are just born naturals.
The rest of us can plod along and with practice and dogged determination we will eventually develop a level of expertise that will fool the common man.
But not ourselves or the real naturals.

Thoughts?

Yes there are some who can play because of a God given talent but they still must practice.

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by Riverwolf

Something similar comes up once in awhile but I have been pondering on this again.

Myself? I think that at most anything in life, some folks are just born naturals.
The rest of us can plod along and with practice and dogged determination we will eventually develop a level of expertise that will fool the common man.
But not ourselves or the real naturals.

Thoughts?

Thanks to the success of Malcom Gladwell's book Outliers we have the 10,000 hour rule embedded in our collective conscious.

But several studies like this one from a few years back strongly indicate that being "born with it" plays a bigger role than repetitive/focused practice
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-s...00-rule-2014-7

But there's a catch.... The level of practice needed to make a difference depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

"..In it, Johansson argues that deliberate practice is only a predictor of success in fields that have super stable structures. For example, in tennis, chess, and classical music, the rules never change, so you can study up to become the best.... But in less stable fields, like entrepreneurship and rock and roll, rules can go out the window:"

Tommy Emmanuel's music wouldn't be categorized as classical, but he has a very structured approach that I believe would require similar discipline in practice efforts to achieve. If your hopes are to develop the skill needed to cover Tommy Emmanuel's work with near note for note perfection, practice would matter a great deal.... If you want to become the next folk singer: James Taylor, Bob Dylan, Ryan Adams. There's probably something special there you have to be born with. Your composition work won't be that complex so the magic in what you do that attracts people is coming from the total package you bring. Beyond a few years of getting accustom to playing in front of people and developing intermediate level guitar chops, practice isn't going to get you much closer to the goal... Now if you're aspiring to be the next Tommy Emmanuel from creative stand-point, not just play covers of his work, but you aspire to bring his level of skill in original compositions and deliver a performance like something we haven't seen before you would need to be "born with it" and you'd have to put in the practice.... For those working on it. Hats off and good luck.

We're all somewhere between strumming that first chord and being the next Tommy Emmanuel, but we don't all aspire to be the next Tommy Emmanuel. Learning the guitar is a linear progression the first few years but then the student has to ask themselves (or their teacher should ask them) "what is the goal". Maybe their goal is to just play in their worship band at church. Maybe they want to focus more on doing the singer-songwriter thing or maybe they aren't very creative but are very good at disciplined practice and aspire to become exceptional at classical guitar or playing at the skill level of someone like Tommy Emmanuel. There are different paths there.

For those who feel strongly that "no one is born with it" here's a video that may change your mind.

[Imbler]

You nailed it.
I've never met anyone who put in the time that couldn't be called competent.

Now maybe that is because the totally incapable people gave up before they put in the hours, but I don't think so.

I played a little in college, then switched to piano, and in my late 50's suffered nerve damage that forced me back to guitar.

It seemed impossible, but I had the benefit of knowing how practice works.

Thousands of hours later, in my 60's, I'm competent.

If you read a biography of any great, you read how much they practiced. Keith Richard's autobiography is a great example. He looks like a natural, but practiced 12 hours a day,

Originally Posted by posternutbag

It very complicated because playing guitar is really a skill set, a collection of skills, and everyone has a slightly different skill set. I believe that there are prodigies, people born with an advanced collection of skills that translate into superior musical performance.

Putting aside true prodigies, most of us come to an instrument with varying degrees of development in the core skills needed to play well. Some people have a really good ear naturally, some people need ear training. Some people have great manual dexterity, for others technique is learned very slowly.

So absolutely, people have different skill sets, and learning to play an instrument is harder for some people, but the question that I would really like to see asked is, has anyone ever met someone who put in thousands of hours of disciplined practice and still couldn’t play? I have met a lot of people who have given up trying to learn to play the guitar, but I seriously doubt any of those that I have met really made a serious attempt and failed despite thousands of hours of effort.

[Guitars+gems]

Yes, I do believe that there are guitar player "naturals" just like there are naturals in any skill. Some combination of factors predisposes certain individuals to learn, demonstrate, and advance in a skill with more ease than others.

Good ear, good brain, long fingers, quick reactions, ability to focus, are advantages to someone wanting to play guitar, no question. But to truly develop that natural talent into artistry, there needs to be interest in and passion for the instrument, and the desire to use the instrument as the means to express musical ideas and emotions. Just 'cause someone can do something doesn't mean they want to do it.

[ChalkLitIScream]

I definitely believe that there are some people have a much easier time picking up playing instruments. This is a predisposition, whether it be by nature, nurture, or both.
I consider myself lucky to have the natural ability to pick up and learn music easily. None of my parents or any other members in my family played any music, so I was a first. However, I also know that I was very eager and determined to pick up music. That kind of willpower also has the capability to do marvelous things.

To be a great player, you need the dedication and love for music more than ''musical genes'', however.

[Mr. Jelly]

Yes there are people that have natural talent. I know I don't. I've had to or I have had the opportunity to work at everything I do on guitar. But once you work around people with natural talent you'd have to be a fool note to appreciate it.

[JonHBone]

Some people take to it faster than others, everyone can be a competent player with effort.

The crazy thing...j.s. bach...who is one of the greatest musical minds ever said anyone could do what he did, if they were/are as industrious. Hm...I wonder.

[musicman1951]

I think there is a very tiny part of the population that is born to do a certain thing. There were others who practiced as much as Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan, but there was something extra there.

For most of the 99+% of us it comes down to hard work. There might be someone who would call me a natural because it looks like it's easier for me than him, but that's only because he didn't see all the years of playing for hours each day.

Most of my adult life I've been giving lessons (mostly on band instruments), and the kids who were ultimately successful were the kids who put in the time. Everything I can do is a result of putting in the time until I could do it well. Everything you can do is a result of putting in the time. Everything someone can do that I can't do is because he put in time that I did not.

And yes, if you spend all your time doing what you can already do you won't get much better. You need to put the time in constructively, with thought and purpose.

Talent is Overrated by Geoff Colvin is an excellent book if you're really interested in this subject.

[Bob Womack]

This is one of those near-imponderables. Easy answer: Yes there are natural players who have an edge. I played with a a bassist who took up hammered dulcimer while I was playing with him. He was winning player's awards within months. But there is usually a limit to where pure aptitude can take you. From there you have to put in the hours.

Bob

[815C]

I taught a young man off and on for years who had some significant learning issues. To this day if you asked him to play a G chord, he'd probably struggle with knowing where to put his fingers. BUT, this guy is an absolute musical genius! He comes up with some of the most original chord changes, voicings, and melodies I've ever heard. He has no idea what he is playing in terms of chord names, etc. Tunes his guitar to all sorts of wild tunings I'd never seen used before. He is truly gifted.

[HHP]

I take great solace in the fact that everyone who takes up guitar, no matter how great they become, sucked at one time. The difference between me and Tony Rice is how far from sucking we get. Tony's still ahead.

[Golffishny]

The word "natural" is vastly overused. Most people who make things look easy have spent countless hours working at the task at hand, be it music, sports or anything else. To dismiss them as natural is a disservice to them and yourself. I've been told I was a natural at golf, but the person who said that didn't see the 1000 practice balls I hit every week for 5 years, or know what I looked like before that. One thing that helps development in anything is to not try to force it. When I learned to work with the golf club instead of fighting it I improved a lot. The same with playing guitar. If we stand back and try to see and feel something from a different perspective, we can often find a better way to learn. Patience and persistence are your friends. The more I work at something, the more natural looking I get.

[fatt-dad]

people find their voice in different ways. But, they find their voice!

Whether, "Natural" or not, I find great joy playing acoustic music and singing. I guess other's are better?

No matter to me!

f-d

[The Bard Rocks]

There are folks out there who have that special coordination between their fingers (or voice) and that part of the brain where music is processed. Some of them do nothing with it and may not even know it is there; but I'll bet more discover it and use it. We usually like to do what we are "good" at. Natural abilities do not all take the same musical form. Some can play so fast their fingers blur before our eyes. Others are extraordinarily expressive and seem to put more "heart" into their music than you and I can muster. Others have a knack for beautiful melodies or perhaps unusual rhythms....

My ability is how I can be moved by certain forms of music. No one should call call that "talent", but it has kept my nose to the grindstone (no I don't want to use that term as it implies that I don't like what I do, which is most definitely not the case - I love it) for going on 60 years now; it is what keeps me playing and that in turn has led to whatever talent I now have. I keep getting better, but slowly, slowly, and since I have never wanted to imitate, have never been bothered by the fact that so many are so much better at it than I am, or will ever be.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by JonHBone

everyone can be a competent player with effort.

That depends on one's definition of "competent", I suppose.