LR Baggs Lyric - or - Fishman Matrix Infinity

mpisani · #1 10-19-2017, 03:24 PM

I have a 39 year old Guild D-40. It's mellowed and has a nice bottom end. My LR Baggs iMix onboard preamp is shot and Baggs doesn't sell this anymore. The cheapest solution would be to keep the pickup but without the preamp I'm out of luck.

I'm considering putting in the Fishman Matrix Infinity or the Baggs Lyric. What are your opinions on these two. Does the Lyric tend to feedback as it's a mic? All opinions are welcome. If you can think of a way to have volume, bass and treble and still keep my current system, I'm all ears.

I play some finger style like James Taylor, but most times I'm strumming if that makes a difference.

Thanks,
Matt

Petty1818 · #2 10-19-2017, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpisani

I have a 39 year old Guild D-40. It's mellowed and has a nice bottom end. My LR Baggs iMix onboard preamp is shot and Baggs doesn't sell this anymore. The cheapest solution would be to keep the pickup but without the preamp I'm out of luck.

I'm considering putting in the Fishman Matrix Infinity or the Baggs Lyric. What are your opinions on these two. Does the Lyric tend to feedback as it's a mic? All opinions are welcome. If you can think of a way to have volume, bass and treble and still keep my current system, I'm all ears.

I play some finger style like James Taylor, but most times I'm strumming if that makes a difference.

Thanks,
Matt

Well, those two couldn't be any more different. The Infinity is your typical UST system. It's nice for what it is but it won't give you the most natural tone. However, it's feedback resistant, people are used to the tone of it and you can always buy the Aura spectrum DI or tonedexter to help make it more like a mic.

The Lyric is nice and in my experience, it takes a lot to make it feedback. I play noisy stages and I never had feedback problems. With that said, the Lyric amplifies your guitar nicely but it doesn't add in any enhanced bass. To me it sounded a bit too thing but others don't mind it. I would probably go for it between the two since it's easier to install and more natural. It's actually one of the only pickups that I think sounds really nice with strumming

doublescale1 · #3 10-20-2017, 07:34 AM

Take a look at the Fishman Ellipse - it will give you Fishman Aura mic images (4 of them can be loaded into the pickup via USB). That to me has been the easiest, most natural mic'd guitar tone to dial in from a pickup system. You can also use that with any of the outboard DI pre-amps if you have one - if not, straight to FOH sounds great too. It has built in feedback suppression and a phase button.

mpisani · #4 10-21-2017, 05:43 PM

Here's another thought. Since with the Fishman married I only will get volume and tone (not real bass, treble, etc.) and with the Baggs Lyric I won't even get that - how about just wiring the current UST Baggs that's in the guitar to the jack and running it through the Fishman Platinum Pro Analog Preamp?

Thoughts?

It's seems I could eliminate my existing tuner and boost pedal and still dial in a nice tone.

rschultz · #5 10-23-2017, 11:40 AM

Lyric is feedback prone.

Get a used Anthem SL, seriously great all-around-jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none pickup.

ChapinFan · #6 10-23-2017, 12:14 PM

I have a 36 year old Guild D40C. And I also have a thread on here about my experience putting a FIshman Matrix UTS pickup.

I really didn't like it. At all. The famous "Quack" was impossible to remove through any EQ. I even took my Guild to a Luthier and had it refretted, and I had the installation of the Matrix checked (a different guy did the installation.) The trebles were just not right.

You can read through my thread. The only way to stop the quack is to remodel the sound coming out. You can use ToneDexter (I assume) or you can invest in a Fishman Aura DI and download a Guild sound image. This gives you not your Guild's sound, but the digital model that sounds very very close. (ToneDexter claims to actually give you your Guild's sound. IDK. I didn't try it.)

BTW, recently I played a $2000 Larrivée guitar at GC. It had a Fishman Matrix installed. I plugged it into a Fishman acoustic amp. The quack was still there. I am fully convinced this is a fatal flaw in the technology, not in any one installation.

If I had it to do all over again, I would have gone LR Baggs Anthem. I'm not sure if it would have been any better... but I know I don't like the Fishman Matrix in my Guild.

That said, the sound I get now out of the Aura is really nice and clean. It isn't perfect. But, it really sounds nice. I'm satisfied with it... but consider that the Aura or ToneDexter is going to run you an extra $299. That plus your pickup makes things kind of pricey. Seem like there should be a better solution...

rschultz · #7 10-23-2017, 12:22 PM

Thing with the Anthem is that the UST is only for the low end and the "quack" isn't really heard much (if at all) since the mic carries most of the sound. I wouldn't feel the need for an Aura or ToneDexter on it.

ChapinFan · #8 10-23-2017, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rschultz

Thing with the Anthem is that the UST is only for the low end and the "quack" isn't really heard much (if at all) since the mic carries most of the sound. I wouldn't feel the need for an Aura or ToneDexter on it.

Which is what I was thinking, and why I think if I had to do it over again, I'd go with the Anthem.

Actually, I went into the shop asking for Anthem, and the guitar tech talked me out of it. Told me that Martin was going with Fishman now and that was the way to go. (I'm sure the fact that he didn't have any Anthems in stock played no part in the his recommendation...)

Beagle1 · #9 10-23-2017, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChapinFan

Which is what I was thinking, and why I think if I had to do it over again, I'd go with the Anthem.

Actually, I went into the shop asking for Anthem, and the guitar tech talked me out of it. Told me that Martin was going with Fishman now and that was the way to go. (I'm sure the fact that he didn't have any Anthems in stock played no part in the his recommendation...)

It is unfortunate the tech misinformed you. Martin is actually providing the Anthem as an option on their guitars now. I saw a whole bunch of Anthem-equipped guitars at the Martin booth at Summer NAMM. I agree with rschultz that the Anthem or SL would be a good solution.

Petty1818 · #10 10-23-2017, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChapinFan

Which is what I was thinking, and why I think if I had to do it over again, I'd go with the Anthem.

Actually, I went into the shop asking for Anthem, and the guitar tech talked me out of it. Told me that Martin was going with Fishman now and that was the way to go. (I'm sure the fact that he didn't have any Anthems in stock played no part in the his recommendation...)

You have to watch who you listen to. Honestly, it's almost better to do the research yourself. I can't tell you how many times I have asked for advice from luthiers or employees of a music store, only to have them tell me something I already knew and that was wrong.

I recently went in to see a luthier who is highly respected and honestly, I loved the work that he did. He had never even heard of the Amulet M. That in no way impacted his work and he did what I asked but it goes to show how little they sometimes know about current pickup systems.

mpisani · #11 10-23-2017, 08:02 PM

I listen to the Anthem online and it sounds awesome. But I also wonder if it would sound that good in a bar.

The Baggs iBeam pickup never gets blended into my around worth the under saddle element. It doesn't sound good. However the Anthem sounds great..... on videos. I play in an acoustic rock band with monitors in front of us. In concerned about feedback. Plus, now if I run into feedback, I through the feedback buster in the sound hole and it's pretty much gone. Can you even use the feedback buster with the Anthem's controls?

Beagle1 · #12 10-23-2017, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpisani

I listen to the Anthem online and it sounds awesome. But I also wonder if it would sound that good in a bar.

The Baggs iBeam pickup never gets blended into my around worth the under saddle element. It doesn't sound good. However the Anthem sounds great..... on videos. I play in an acoustic rock band with monitors in front of us. In concerned about feedback. Plus, now if I run into feedback, I through the feedback buster in the sound hole and it's pretty much gone. Can you even use the feedback buster with the Anthem's controls?

I have used the Anthem SL in exactly the situation you describe -- large, noisy bar/music club with a rock band and monitors in front of me. For that particular scenario, it has worked better than any of my other systems (K&K, Aura, DTAR, even my Maton AP5 Pro). I didn't use a feedback buster either. My only issue with the Anthem SL is that I feel it needs some EQ tweaks in a couple places to notch out some annoying frequencies and really get it to sound its best.

jseth · #13 10-23-2017, 09:56 PM

I currently have the Anthem SL in both my 6 and 12 string "stage" guitars (both hand-builds by Mark Angus), and I like them quite a bit. Had them in there since just after the Anthem came out... spoke at length to Brian at Baggs to decide whether the "full" version or the SL would suit me better. Thanks to him, I decided on the SL.

So, they've been in the guitars for6 or more years now. I play through a Bose L1 Model II system (with the T! mixer/preamp) or my AER Compact 60. The Anthem sounds really good with either rig. With the SL, once you set the balance between the UST portion (which handles the lower frequencies) and the True-Mic portion, you don't really have to mess with it unless you want to. Over time, I've moved that balance more towards the mic side; when I first had it installed, I favored more of the bass/UST side a bit.

I used the Fishman Matrix Infinity pickups for nearly a decade prior to the Anthem SL, and I liked them just fine. The issue with the "Quack" seems to be more pronounced when the player has a fairly "heavy" picking hand, and I have more of a medium-light attack strength mostly, so the quack wasn't that big an issue for me. I would also put a Shure SM-57 in front of the guitar when I played, just to bring some string noise and "breath" into the signal chain... I received a LOT of compliments on my acoustic sound with that set-up.

The one thing I will say about the Anthem (either the SL or the full) is that installing it WILL CHANGE THE SOUND OF YOUR GUITAR... demonstrably, in my case; I lost volume and the tone seemed "flattened out" across the spectrum. The tone thing wasn't all that bad to deal with, but the volume loss was considerable. After about 6 months or so, it seems that the volume "came back" mostly... if I didn't really like the amplified tone of the pickup, they would have come out immediately... so that says something more about the sound of the Anthem.

Both my Angus guitars have been with me for well over 3 decades now; 1979 for the 6 string and 1983 for the 12 string... so, I am REALLY familiar with the sound of those guitars - and the changes after the installation were very obvious to my ears. I suspect that, if I had only had the guitar for a few years or less, I wouldn't have heard much difference at all.

don't have to tweak the Anthems very much at all to get a good sound from them, but, then again, I don't consider adjusting tone controls as "much" when it comes to tweaking! That's what they are there for, right?

sounds like the Anthem would be a good fit for you, but, have you considered just getting an outboard (stand alone) preamp and using what's already in the guitar? Seems that would be the easiest solution, if it would work...

TheSaint · #14 10-24-2017, 12:06 AM

Hi jseth

I have the Lyric installed in a Dreadnought and also play through the same Bose system as you.

Do you use any preamp or DI between the guitar and the Bose...?

Graham

mpisani · #15 10-24-2017, 08:27 AM

jseth - thanks for the info. It was very informative. I had thought about getting the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI Analog Preamp Pedal.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PlatinumPro

I found a Sam Ash a little over an hour away to try it out. My guitar is still in the shop awaiting my instructions so I grabbed a cheap Martin off the wall and tried it out. I wasn't blown away but I have to say it did sound nice.

It has a tuner and a boost which I have separate pedals for now. Part of me thinks I could eliminate two pedals on my board and part of me thinks why should I pay the extra money for this pedal when I already have a boost and a tuner. I'm wondering if there's something out there that good, but maybe just concentrates on the preamp and EQ part.