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  #31  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:22 PM
fumei fumei is offline
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Bitcoin seems to me to be a function of chance and hype. I would not go there unless you are willing to accept a loss. It MIGHT get better than what you pay, but it may not.

Blockchain, on the other hand, is another thing entirely (although bitcoin transactions use a version of blockchain). Blockchain will, IMO, become an international standard for transactions. It makes sense.

From the link to understanding blockchain:
Quote:
The UK-based Provenance offers supply chain auditing for a range of consumer goods. Making use of the Ethereum blockchain, a Provenance pilot project ensures that fish sold in Sushi restaurants in Japan has been sustainably harvested by its suppliers in Indonesia.
A friend works in the fashion industry and they are looking into this very seriously as a way to promote the whole chain of processes used to get from design to consumer. More and more fashion consumers WANT to know the whole chain. Something that caters to that is a potential edge. So companies that are working on corporate level blockchain services (not just financial transactions) are a good potential investment.

But bitcoin? Meh. I think I will pass. I do not have the gambling bug.
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  #32  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:48 PM
buddyhu buddyhu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumei View Post
Bitcoin seems to me to be a function of chance and hype. I would not go there unless you are willing to accept a loss. It MIGHT get better than what you pay, but it may not.

Blockchain, on the other hand, is another thing entirely (although bitcoin transactions use a version of blockchain). Blockchain will, IMO, become an international standard for transactions. It makes sense.

From the link to understanding blockchain:


A friend works in the fashion industry and they are looking into this very seriously as a way to promote the whole chain of processes used to get from design to consumer. More and more fashion consumers WANT to know the whole chain. Something that caters to that is a potential edge. So companies that are working on corporate level blockchain services (not just financial transactions) are a good potential investment.

But bitcoin? Meh. I think I will pass. I do not have the gambling bug.
Do you hold stock in any such companies? If so, which ones?
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2017, 11:50 PM
Jusca Jusca is offline
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Originally Posted by buddyhu View Post
I've read about those. I think they see for $400 on up to a couple of thousand. Kind of makes you wonder why someone would sell a machine rather than just use the machine, yes?

Reminds me of the things I learned in school about the California Gold Rush of 1849: Many thousands of people came to the state hoping to strike gold and be rich....and a few did. But many more got rich by selling stuff to the miners, like Levi's and gold pans and pack mules and hydraulic pumps, etc. etc.
Much quicker and easier to make money selling machines than mining with an individual machine to make a profit.
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  #34  
Old 12-15-2017, 02:39 AM
jessupe jessupe is offline
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HEARD IT IN 2009/10

heard it again in 2013,, as noted here

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.p...a-suggestion/&

hearing it now in almost 2018



2 things, I suggest you read the link of mine I posted , and I suggest you take the time to REALLY understand your monetary systems

bitcoin is a numerical personification of people who DO understand the global systems and just what that means...

If you don;t understand bitcoin, that means you don't understand the international banking cartel, that means you don't understand anything, but you most likely think you do.
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  #35  
Old 12-15-2017, 12:39 PM
PearlJamNoCode PearlJamNoCode is offline
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A joke about the volatility of Bitcoin:

Son: Hey dad, can I have a bitcoin?

Dad: A bitcoin? That's $10,000! I don't have $13,000... how could you ask for $7,000?!
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  #36  
Old 12-15-2017, 01:46 PM
jessupe jessupe is offline
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Originally Posted by PearlJamNoCode View Post
A joke about the volatility of Bitcoin:

Son: Hey dad, can I have a bitcoin?

Dad: A bitcoin? That's $10,000! I don't have $13,000... how could you ask for $7,000?!
Son "hey dad can I ask you a question about politics?"

Dad "son, we don't talk about bitcoin"

Son "ok, well how about a question about religion?"

Dad "nope, we don't talk about bitcoin and faith son"

Son " "Well how about why we're always at war dad, can we talk about that?"

Dad "no son, like I said we don't talk about bitcoin"

Son "how about money? why are we in debt 23 trillion dollars?"

Dad "again son, we just don't talk about bitcoin or any crypto currencies"

Son "Dad is there anything we can talk about?"

Dad "Son, have you heard about bitcoin?"

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  #37  
Old 12-15-2017, 02:25 PM
Denny B Denny B is offline
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I think Warren Buffett knows a little bit about finance and international banking...



"Not a bit interested...

Several times a year, Buffett holds a casual event in his home town of Omaha, Neb., in which business students ask him questions about a myriad of finance and investing topics.*

In the latest salon, he apparently received one about the famous cryptocurrency. Of it, he said, "You can't value bitcoin, because it's not a value-producing asset." Glancing at it through investor glasses, he added that it wasn't possible to determine how high it will trade for. According to him, there's "a real bubble in that sort of thing."

This is a doubling-down of Buffett's position on bitcoin specifically, and cryptocurrencies in general. He's gone on the record previously with his criticisms of these instruments. In a 2014 Squawk Box segment on CNBC, Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert solicited his opinion of bitcoin. His answer was blunt: "Stay away from it," he warned. "It's a mirage, basically."

Elaborating on his remarks, Buffett said bitcoin is "a very effective way of transmitting money, and you can do it anonymously and all that." He added: "A check is a way of transmitting money, too. Are checks worth a whole lot of money just because they can transmit money?"

He capped his criticism by saying that "The idea that bitcoin has some huge intrinsic value is just a joke, in my view."
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  #38  
Old 12-15-2017, 02:35 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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Originally Posted by Denny B View Post
Elaborating on his remarks, Buffett said bitcoin is "a very effective way of transmitting money, and you can do it anonymously and all that." He added: "A check is a way of transmitting money, too. Are checks worth a whole lot of money just because they can transmit money?"
I think this is the important observation. There needs to be a separation in the discussion of the usefulness of bitcoin (or other cryptos) versus the value of investing in bitcoin.
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  #39  
Old 12-15-2017, 08:14 PM
jessupe jessupe is offline
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Originally Posted by Denny B View Post
I think Warren Buffett knows a little bit about finance and international banking...



"Not a bit interested...

Several times a year, Buffett holds a casual event in his home town of Omaha, Neb., in which business students ask him questions about a myriad of finance and investing topics.*

In the latest salon, he apparently received one about the famous cryptocurrency. Of it, he said, "You can't value bitcoin, because it's not a value-producing asset." Glancing at it through investor glasses, he added that it wasn't possible to determine how high it will trade for. According to him, there's "a real bubble in that sort of thing."

This is a doubling-down of Buffett's position on bitcoin specifically, and cryptocurrencies in general. He's gone on the record previously with his criticisms of these instruments. In a 2014 Squawk Box segment on CNBC, Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert solicited his opinion of bitcoin. His answer was blunt: "Stay away from it," he warned. "It's a mirage, basically."

Elaborating on his remarks, Buffett said bitcoin is "a very effective way of transmitting money, and you can do it anonymously and all that." He added: "A check is a way of transmitting money, too. Are checks worth a whole lot of money just because they can transmit money?"

He capped his criticism by saying that "The idea that bitcoin has some huge intrinsic value is just a joke, in my view."
yes he does, and he's talking to a large group of unknowing people who know everything about money/investing/economics AFTER the money has been created and know virtually nothing about the CREATION of money and WHO is in charge of that and HOW that works. OR why those questions would even be important because of course those question directly link to the PERCEIVED VALUE and why there has been a development of FAITH regarding bitcoin.

Furthermore pointing out how it can be used as a means of exchange between two parties only shows that either he does not know what he's talking about or he's being vague or misleading intentionally, just like Dimon, Yellen and Blankfein , because of course anyone who knows anything about this knows that THAT is NOT what it is all about, that is something someone who knows nothing about it would say or someone who is trying to intentionally steer you away from it, I'm sure when he said that it was worth 5k

It is about MANY THINGS but above all else it is about BLOCKCHAIN/SCALABLE BLOCKCHAIN/SMART CONTRACTS/ THE TANGLE/ ANY SOCIAL CONSTRUCT {SUCH AS AN ELECTION} AND IN GENERAL HAS THE ABILITY TO WIPE OUT ANY AND ALL "MIDDLE MEN" ECONOMIES IN ALL SECTORS. IE THE ABILITY TO STOP PARASITIC EXPLOITATION. AND WILL BE HEAVILY USED AND RELIED ON WITH THE INCOMING AI NETWORKS ON G5

This is not about "making money" this is about CHANGING HOW MONEY IS CREATED, WHO CREATES IT AND WHO BENEFITS OR NOT FROM THE CREATION OF MONEY

It is as simple as this, the majority of early adopters in CC knew some unpleasant facts about the world that were not common knowledge until the advent of the internet. Even with this information starting to surface in the late 90's, it took quite sometime to spread, and has intentionally been "diluted, distracted from,polluted and over all subverted" but the info was and is out there, that info is WHY bitcoin took off...it all started to come from 2 places at the same time in the early days....1. financial forums and 2. conspiracy forums...and as unpleasant, controversial, "crazy", unbelievable , as many layers and levels of understanding there are, or whatever someone might say about this information,it IS why bitcoin is doing what it is doing and you either know what this information is, or you do not.

The world is very simple, yet very complex, the key to understanding it is understanding the golden rule...

but when you understand this, you must not think of the gold after it has been made and who has garnered more after its creation,no you must focus on it before it is created and who is doing the creation and just how much does that cost humanity.

there will be many ups and downs in bitcoin and CC, this is intentional, it must look "natural"....they will get the all digital no where to hide global digital currency one way or another....it will be up to the youth to use the blockchain against those who will use it to further enslave humanity with debt.

So you can rely on "someone who knows a thing or two about international banking" and their opinions and advice, or you can study international banking, your monetary systems, money creation, taxation,CC, bitcoin and central banking and then come to your own conclusions based on your own road walked in education about the subject...If you do, something tells me suddenly, just like everyone else who decided to understand how this stuff we chase all our lives actually works, that you'll suddenly "get" bitcoin and
CC, just like everyone else who already "gets" it, then you'll want in too and understand why its doing what it is.

Good ideas spread themselves, ending poverty, war, economic hardships, theft, slavery, pain and suffering are good ideas.

Money is not the problem, it is THE money you are using that is the problem, you must understand why that is

To quote Evin Symogi in a talk he gave at an NCAL meeting "remember, the guy with the guitar, he's the good guy"

Last edited by jessupe; 12-15-2017 at 08:32 PM.
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  #40  
Old 12-15-2017, 09:35 PM
Denny B Denny B is offline
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Originally Posted by jessupe View Post
yes he does, and he's talking to a large group of unknowing people who know everything about money/investing/economics AFTER the money has been created and know virtually nothing about the CREATION of money and WHO is in charge of that and HOW that works. OR why those questions would even be important because of course those question directly link to the PERCEIVED VALUE and why there has been a development of FAITH regarding bitcoin.

Furthermore pointing out how it can be used as a means of exchange between two parties only shows that either he does not know what he's talking about or he's being vague or misleading intentionally, just like Dimon, Yellen and Blankfein , because of course anyone who knows anything about this knows that THAT is NOT what it is all about, that is something someone who knows nothing about it would say or someone who is trying to intentionally steer you away from it, I'm sure when he said that it was worth 5k

It is about MANY THINGS but above all else it is about BLOCKCHAIN/SCALABLE BLOCKCHAIN/SMART CONTRACTS/ THE TANGLE/ ANY SOCIAL CONSTRUCT {SUCH AS AN ELECTION} AND IN GENERAL HAS THE ABILITY TO WIPE OUT ANY AND ALL "MIDDLE MEN" ECONOMIES IN ALL SECTORS. IE THE ABILITY TO STOP PARASITIC EXPLOITATION. AND WILL BE HEAVILY USED AND RELIED ON WITH THE INCOMING AI NETWORKS ON G5

This is not about "making money" this is about CHANGING HOW MONEY IS CREATED, WHO CREATES IT AND WHO BENEFITS OR NOT FROM THE CREATION OF MONEY

It is as simple as this, the majority of early adopters in CC knew some unpleasant facts about the world that were not common knowledge until the advent of the internet. Even with this information starting to surface in the late 90's, it took quite sometime to spread, and has intentionally been "diluted, distracted from,polluted and over all subverted" but the info was and is out there, that info is WHY bitcoin took off...it all started to come from 2 places at the same time in the early days....1. financial forums and 2. conspiracy forums...and as unpleasant, controversial, "crazy", unbelievable , as many layers and levels of understanding there are, or whatever someone might say about this information,it IS why bitcoin is doing what it is doing and you either know what this information is, or you do not.

The world is very simple, yet very complex, the key to understanding it is understanding the golden rule...

but when you understand this, you must not think of the gold after it has been made and who has garnered more after its creation,no you must focus on it before it is created and who is doing the creation and just how much does that cost humanity.

there will be many ups and downs in bitcoin and CC, this is intentional, it must look "natural"....they will get the all digital no where to hide global digital currency one way or another....it will be up to the youth to use the blockchain against those who will use it to further enslave humanity with debt.

So you can rely on "someone who knows a thing or two about international banking" and their opinions and advice, or you can study international banking, your monetary systems, money creation, taxation,CC, bitcoin and central banking and then come to your own conclusions based on your own road walked in education about the subject...If you do, something tells me suddenly, just like everyone else who decided to understand how this stuff we chase all our lives actually works, that you'll suddenly "get" bitcoin and
CC, just like everyone else who already "gets" it, then you'll want in too and understand why its doing what it is.

Good ideas spread themselves, ending poverty, war, economic hardships, theft, slavery, pain and suffering are good ideas.

Money is not the problem, it is THE money you are using that is the problem, you must understand why that is

To quote Evin Symogi in a talk he gave at an NCAL meeting "remember, the guy with the guitar, he's the good guy"


Sorry, I actually lost interest and stopped reading when you insinuated that Warren Buffett doesn't know what he's talking about...

Last edited by Denny B; 12-15-2017 at 09:57 PM.
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  #41  
Old 12-15-2017, 10:34 PM
jessupe jessupe is offline
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Originally Posted by Denny B View Post
Sorry, I actually lost interest and stopped reading when you insinuated that Warren Buffett doesn't know what he's talking about...
actually I insinuated that he intentionally tells people that it has no value and that by suggesting that it only has value as a means of exchange, like checks, that he either does in fact not know what he's talking about as that is a naive statement...or more likely,as you suggest, he does in fact know what he's talking about and that is exactly why he's says not to buy it, just like Jamie Dimon

Old era investors who made tons of money made that money "back in the day" {between 1913 and say 1995, heck up till right now,as not everyone knows "it"} ,people like Buffet, because they and a few other "select" people knew "the one thing" that started to be talked about on the net when it first came out, the thing that not everyone knows, the one thing bitcoin and CC people do know, and those that "don;t get it" don't know.

Like I said before, prior to "the" information spreading like a slang word across the internet very few people knew this information, if you did, and you were an "inside the loop" investor, you could become wealthy, many did.

"Old"money very much has a dog in the fight related to bad mouthing CC, as long as there are people who do not understand "it" there still will people who do not get it, fine by me...you will succumb to the Borg one way or another.
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  #42  
Old 12-16-2017, 10:56 AM
Denny B Denny B is offline
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Originally Posted by jessupe View Post
actually I insinuated that he intentionally tells people that it has no value and that by suggesting that it only has value as a means of exchange, like checks, that he either does in fact not know what he's talking about as that is a naive statement...or more likely,as you suggest, he does in fact know what he's talking about and that is exactly why he's says not to buy it, just like Jamie Dimon

Old era investors who made tons of money made that money "back in the day" {between 1913 and say 1995, heck up till right now,as not everyone knows "it"} ,people like Buffet, because they and a few other "select" people knew "the one thing" that started to be talked about on the net when it first came out, the thing that not everyone knows, the one thing bitcoin and CC people do know, and those that "don;t get it" don't know.

Like I said before, prior to "the" information spreading like a slang word across the internet very few people knew this information, if you did, and you were an "inside the loop" investor, you could become wealthy, many did.

"Old"money very much has a dog in the fight related to bad mouthing CC, as long as there are people who do not understand "it" there still will people who do not get it, fine by me...you will succumb to the Borg one way or another.

Well, I'm fine with you expressing your personal opinions as long as you're respectful of mine...

I'm of the mind that if I want to have a fine guitar made, I wouldn't talk to my financial advisor...

And if I want financial advise, I wouldn't rely on the guy who built my guitar...

Have a good day...
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  #43  
Old 12-16-2017, 11:19 AM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Just a PSA... C-SPAN's "Washington Journal" had a 30-minute segment this morning on crypto currencies and bitcoin.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?438546...cryptocurrency
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  #44  
Old 12-16-2017, 11:36 AM
Song Writer Song Writer is offline
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I retract my previous flippant comment. If you can use bitcoin to fund terrorism, it's a serious currency:

http://time.com/5065674/woman-laundering-bitcoin-isis/
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  #45  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:52 PM
fumei fumei is offline
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Originally Posted by buddyhu View Post
Do you hold stock in any such companies? If so, which ones?
I have a little in two startups, BTL Group and Hive Blockchain (both here in Vancouver) but again...these are startups and therefore somewhat of a gamble. Thus, it is a play, and I can accept a loss.

On the other hand, I actually DO have investment in IBM, which is into blockchain in a very big way. They are a major player. They have teamed up with Walmart to blockchain the food business. You know when IBM and Walmart are involved, this is not fooling around.
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