Military Jet Experts--What is this?

[CoolerKing]

You guys probably know I live in Key West. I was out at the Naval Air Station yesterday for our annual Hurricane drill and saw the Aggressor Squadron, which usually uses Northrop F5s:



I did not, however, recognize this aircraft, and was hoping you guys would be able to help me out:

[HHP]

First one is a trainer, I want to say T-37 but that's probably wrong. Don't recognize the second, could it be British or Canadian?

[HDRider]

Originally Posted by HHP

First one is a trainer, I want to say T-37 but that's probably wrong.

I'm no aeronautical wizard, but I'm pretty sure it's an F5.

You know, like the OP said it was.

[philo426]

I thiink the British jet is Hawker Hunter.

[6L6]

Definitely a Hawker Hunter. Classic British jet that flew mostly in the 1950's.

[Wadcutter]

Originally Posted by philo426

I thiink the British jet is Hawker Hunter.

That would be my guess too.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by HDRider

I'm no aeronautical wizard, but I'm pretty sure it's an F5.

You know, like the OP said it was.

yes, that one is single seat, They made the same as a two seat trainer and it was the T-38 Talon.

[CoolerKing]

Originally Posted by 6L6

Definitely a Hawker Hunter. Classic British jet that flew mostly in the 1950's.

Great thx. They said they use the Northrop F5 to emulate MiGs that were slower, smaller and more maneuverable, while the Hunter was for emulating larger, faster, less maneuverable jets.

When I saw it from afar in the air, maybe several thousand yards, I thought it was a Grumman A6 Intruder.

[Kerbie]

Unfortunately, the Hawker Hunter was in the news last year when it suffered a horrible crash at a British airshow that resulted in 11 fatalities. I hadn't heard much about the Hunter for many years before this crash. Here are a couple links and a youtube video…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_S..._Airshow_crash

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...w-in-pictures/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK5Ek36QDuM

[Wadcutter]

Originally Posted by kerbie

Unfortunately, the Hawker Hunter was in the news last year when it suffered a horrible crash at a British airshow that resulted in 11 fatalities. I hadn't heard much about the Hunter for many years before this crash. Here are a couple links and a youtube video…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_S..._Airshow_crash

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...w-in-pictures/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK5Ek36QDuM

Wikipedia link says the pilot survived the crash. Man that is absolutely incredible to have survived that crash. Those poor folks on the ground.

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by Wadcutter

Wikipedia link says the pilot survived the crash. Man that is absolutely incredible to have survived that crash. Those poor folks on the ground.

Ain't that the truth! Eleven completely innocent people. Yes, he did survive… he was somehow thrown clear of the wreckage, but was in critical condition for months.

[Pitar]

Northrup F5 "Freedom Fighter", a single seat fighter derivative of the original trainer Northrup built for the USAF (T38 Talon) which was the first USAF jet capable of a non-zoom vertical climb (135 MPH straight up).

Jack Northrup was way ahead of his time. He designed the first flying wing back in the 40's (YB-49) but he couldn't play the USAF political games. He also designed the P-61 Black Widow night fighter of WWII. He was an innovator of advanced designs and it took much convincing of the general staff of the US military to get his work off the drawing board. Think cavalry soldier versus 1st world war aircraft fighter planes. That's about right for an analogy of the US chiefs of staff versus the emerging weapons technology Northrup very much leading the game on in step with Lockheed's Kelly Johnson. Jack, however, had no time for generals and protocol. Kelly Johnson had Lockheed's reputation already in the bag (P-38 Lightning) when he ultimately lead a team on the SR-71 Blackbird design.

Edit: There's a later version of the plane in the link known as the the F-20 Tigershark, which is a single engine airplane versus the two engines of the T-38 and F-5.

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by Pitar

Northrup F5 "Freedom Fighter", a single seat fighter derivative of the original trainer Northrup built for the USAF (T38 Talon) which was the first USAF jet capable of a non-zoom vertical climb (135 MPH straight up).

Pitar, I certainly agree with you about the genius of Jack Northrup, but I'm a little confused about the sentence above. I wasn't sure if the vertical climb speed refers to the T-38 or the F-5, although it may not matter much.

You're saying one of those did a vertical climb at 135 mph? I haven't ever flown either one of those jets, so I will certainly defer to anyone who has. But that's about a 118-knot climb in a jet that barely had any wing to it. The T-38 was well-known for relatively high speeds while maneuvering. Its final approach speed, depending on its weight, was in the ballpark of 160K and when clean, that speed was usually around 180K or so. Its stall speed, also dependent on its weight, configuration, etc., was around 125K-160K. I'd be flabbergasted if it could do a vertical climb at around 120K. Maybe I'm not understanding something you meant, but where did that 135 mph figure come from?

[teleamp]

Looks more like a F-16A to me...

[Neil K Walk]

I don't know about the second fighter but I spent some time around A-6E and EA-6B and that one ain't even close. Same era though; 1950s design, but the A-6 had a tandem dual cockpit, prominent refueling probe on the nose and twin exhaust at the rear of the wing, not the single exhaust bird pictured here so even if viewed from below the silhouette would still be quite different. It's also too clunky to be mistaken for the F-16 but I could see similarities in the tail section. My first guess would be wrong and say it was some sort of 1960s era MiG. If it's a British Hawker Hunter I can see from the profile based on a Google Search but without more of a 3/4 perspective to get an idea of the wing sweep I just don't know.