Bridge pin sitting too high

[Susieguitar]

Got a 00-skye in May and just changed strings for the first time. It has a slotted headstock (which I've never had on a guitar). Well I followed fuzzy mustaches method and all the strings went on great except the low E. When tuning the bridge pin popped out. I had to loosen the string tension to get it back in and finally did get it up to pitch but now the pin sits too high. My question is will this damage the guitar if I leave it that way until the next string change? Argh. Help! BTW I love this guitar - it stays solidly in tune like no guitar I've ever played.

[YamahaGuy]

The pins pop out when the ball end of the string gets hung up on the bottom of the bridge pin. There are many ways to remedy that issue.

Anyway, with the low E string having the largest diameter of all the strings, and it's diameter matching or exceeding that of the rounded groove found in many bridge pins, it stands to reason that there is some crowding in the hole/slot for the low E string and bridge pin, so having a "proud" pin is not uncommon or unusual.

Again, there are several ways to remedy this too.

Will it hurt anything? As long as the ball end is seated properly [and not caught on the bottom of the pin again with the possibility of it popping out the pin] you should be fine. Nothing to worry about other than the asymmetry.

[Brucebubs]

I found by extending the slot in the pin slightly with a diamond burr alloy grinding head attachment on my Dremel, like the pin pictured on the left, allows a little more room for the string end winding and the pin can sit down.



Here's the 'before and after' shots on a Huss & Dalton I owned after I extended the slots in the pins.

[John Arnold]

The string winding may be binding in the slot in the pin. You can either widen the slot, or cut a shallow slot in the bridge for clearance.
Slotted pins are a bad idea, for several reasons. Better to slot the bridge and use unslotted pins.
When installing the pins, pull up gently on the string to make sure the string ball is not catching on the end of the pin. Rounding or beveling the end of the pin will help.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

The string winding may be binding in the slot in the pin. You can either widen the slot, or cut a shallow slot in the bridge for clearance.
Slotted pins are a bad idea, for several reasons. Better to slot the bridge and use unslotted pins.
When installing the pins, pull up gently on the string to make sure the string ball is not catching on the end of the pin. Rounding or beveling the end of the pin will help.

I'm delighted to read this. My Collings are slotted bridge and unslotted pins but my two Eastmans are t'other way around. One caught me out on a string changing video!

See :
Bridge pin rebellion starts at about 9:40 on.

I've bought some rat tail files but admit I'm a little scared of filing the bridges, and suddenly unslotted bone pins seem to have gone extinct.

Any advice about bridge slotting, John?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Susieguitar

Got a 00-skye in May and just changed strings for the first time. It has a slotted headstock (which I've never had on a guitar). Well I followed fuzzy mustaches method and all the strings went on great except the low E. When tuning the bridge pin popped out. I had to loosen the string tension to get it back in and finally did get it up to pitch but now the pin sits too high. My question is will this damage the guitar if I leave it that way until the next string change? Argh. Help! BTW I love this guitar - it stays solidly in tune like no guitar I've ever played.

It takes only a tiny amount of difference in the actual pin and fitted hole to make the pins sit a different levels. One thing I always suggest is to make certain the pins are kept in the same order when changing strings. I simply lay them on a soft cloth to keep them in proper numerical order and prevent them from rolling around.

My preference is also to use solid pins and a slotted bridge, but it's not a deal breaker to go the other way.

Heck, Martin doesn't even use tapered holes in many of their instruments. That makes it easier for the ball to try and come up past the edge of the hole, and that's what is seen in many cases of the pin rising up when the string is tensioned. Letting the pin protrude between string changes isn't a good idea, as it subjects the bridge pin hole to accelerated and excessive wear as the ball end bears against the edge of the hole.

[lar]

Santa Cruz guitars have slotted pins?

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by lar

Santa Cruz guitars have slotted pins?

I looked up some guitar builders a while back and found this,

Collings and Bourgeois - slotted bridges and solid pins
SCGC and Goodall - both, slotted bridge and slotted pins
Huss & Dalton and Froggy Bottom - slotted pins only AND slotting the bridge will void their warranty!

[lar]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I looked up some guitar builders a while back and found this,

Collings and Bourgeois - slotted bridges and solid pins
SCGC and Goodall - both, slotted bridge and slotted pins
Huss & Dalton and Froggy Bottom - slotted pins only AND slotting the bridge will void their warranty!

Thanks Bruce.

I've always thought the factories use slotted pins to reduce cost, but like John said, cost aside, solid pins are a superior design.

Given the cost of SC guitars I would expect the best solution, not the cheapest solution. Now I don't know what to think - slotting both? Maybe they are slotting the pin and ramping the bridge - (really the same as slotting the pin). I would hope not. Or maybe they are partially slotting both as opposed to fully slotting one. Which is odd.

I'll ask them and see what they say. I'm curious.

[lar]

Here is Richard Hoover's response (someone already asked him this question):

"Efficiency of string energy to sound is determined by the degree of contact and the resonance of the material the string contacts. Assuming the bridge pin material doesnÂ’t absorb energy the connection between string, pin and bridge will determine how well the vibration will transfer from string, to top to ear. Without a slot to encircle the string weÂ’d allow an airspace that would compromise the transfer. Likewise if we only slotted the pin, OR the bridge, the unslotted component would not make total contact. The most complete contact is achieved by slotting each, pin and bridge with half the diameter of the string. If this is done to insure the string is encircled for the whole of its diameter, the most efficient transfer can be achieved."

So yes, SC is partially slotting each (a half diameter each). You can agree or disagree with this, but that's what they do.

This is also an interesting reference:

http://www.lutherie.net/bridgepins.html

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by lar

Here is Richard Hoover's response (someone already asked him this question):

"Efficiency of string energy to sound is determined by the degree of contact and the resonance of the material the string contacts. Assuming the bridge pin material doesnÂ’t absorb energy the connection between string, pin and bridge will determine how well the vibration will transfer from string, to top to ear. Without a slot to encircle the string weÂ’d allow an airspace that would compromise the transfer. Likewise if we only slotted the pin, OR the bridge, the unslotted component would not make total contact. The most complete contact is achieved by slotting each, pin and bridge with half the diameter of the string. If this is done to insure the string is encircled for the whole of its diameter, the most efficient transfer can be achieved."

So yes, SC is partially slotting each (a half diameter each). You can agree or disagree with this, but that's what they do.

This is also an interesting reference:

http://www.lutherie.net/bridgepins.html

This is intetesting to me, I never think of the string having any substantial vibration after the saddle. Coming from the banjo world, the string ends are attached to a tailpiece which is seperate from the soundboard (or head) which is being driven by the strings through the bridge. Banjos are plenty loud enough, like archtop guitars and mandolins. I am no expert but they seem to work.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by lar

Here is Richard Hoover's response (someone already asked him this question):

"Efficiency of string energy to sound is determined by the degree of contact and the resonance of the material the string contacts. Assuming the bridge pin material doesnÂ’t absorb energy the connection between string, pin and bridge will determine how well the vibration will transfer from string, to top to ear. Without a slot to encircle the string weÂ’d allow an airspace that would compromise the transfer. Likewise if we only slotted the pin, OR the bridge, the unslotted component would not make total contact. The most complete contact is achieved by slotting each, pin and bridge with half the diameter of the string. If this is done to insure the string is encircled for the whole of its diameter, the most efficient transfer can be achieved."

So yes, SC is partially slotting each (a half diameter each). You can agree or disagree with this, but that's what they do.

This is also an interesting reference:

http://www.lutherie.net/bridgepins.html

CF Martin used to do exactly the same thing from the early 1940s to the mid-1980s, when fully-slotted pins and un-slotted holes were introduced.