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  #61  
Old 08-06-2017, 10:11 PM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
I like Trance systems but I haven't tried a Dazzo system yet but from the good reports, I may just do that. The only alarm I have is the epoxy mounting and brake fluid removal of the Dazzos should I want to try relocating them. Could this be a little harsh on the bridgeplate?
I think he has moved away from brake fluid removal. I have used an epoxy remover. First I experimented on a piece of lumber to see what would happen. I can't even tell the epoxy was there. The remover I have is a gel-like substance and it loosens the epoxy in 15 minutes then I gently scrape any remnants. I think a tape install isn't a good idea unless you can duplicate the Trance tape which seems to do a good job.
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  #62  
Old 08-06-2017, 10:18 PM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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Brick, I did put a Trance in a GS Mini and compared it to another Dazzo Equipped GS Mini. I never started a thread regarding that experience. I mentioned it a few times. I never came out and said decisively that one was better than the other. They were similar. I think the Dazzo had a sweeter tone. But again, two different guitars.
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  #63  
Old 08-06-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Nice chart! Possibly the hardest part of your chart to quantify is the ease of install, and it varies with what someone finds "hard", and it's tough to be consistent when each pickup has different challenges. For example, K&Ks involve supergluing 3 separate transducers to the right spot, a fairly tricky process for many people, not to mention the fright factor of hovering over your guitar with glue. You have that as moderate. Lyric involves reaching in and sticking the pickup on with tape. You have that as easy, which makes sense. But Trance also involves reaching in and sticking on 2 pickups with double-sticky tape, but that's "difficult"? The hardest part of most of these installs is drilling the end-pin jack. If you already have one, I'd call all of them "easy", as long as you have the right tools and have had a bit of practice.

BTW: to the OPs question, my favorites are always dual source. I currently have 4 setups that I like:

K&K + internal mic
Dazzo + internal mic
Trance M + internal mic
Barabara + internal mic

The mic's the key to making them all sound good.


Doug, recognizing that you prefer a dual source, I was wondering which pickup(s) you like best in a single source installation. I'm curious which top 4 or 5 you've found perform the best from your extensive testing.
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  #64  
Old 08-07-2017, 01:23 PM
John Bartus John Bartus is offline
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MartinGitDave, thank you for the awesome chart. Although I've not tried all these different pickups, I have been in search of good amplified acoustic tone since the Barcus Berry stick-on pickups back in the 70s. I've gone the Ovation and Takamine routes, and then started using the original Fishman Aura Blender with my Breedloves in 2005. I graduated to the Aura Spectrum DI, and I still use that with my Breedloves.

I also love the original Martin Aura preamp and the Aura F1+ on the Martins I own. The Aura technology really comes closest to giving me a real acoustic tone amplified. It's not totally easy finding the right images for live work, but the rewards are worth it.

I have an Anthem SL that was installed on a Bedell I bought a couple of years ago. I do like the sound; it's just not as "acoustic" as the Aura tones.

And finally, I got a ToneDexter. There are some of my guitars for which I haven't found the best Aura image; I will (when I get time) try and create live tones for those "holdouts."

This has been a compelling discussion, and I look forward to more!
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  #65  
Old 08-07-2017, 05:00 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Doug, recognizing that you prefer a dual source, I was wondering which pickup(s) you like best in a single source installation. I'm curious which top 4 or 5 you've found perform the best from your extensive testing.
Everyone's taste, needs and experience is different when it comes to pickups, so my picks may not be relevant to anyone elses, but basically, I use the ones I listed, Dazzo, Trance, K&K, and Barbara by themselves when necessary, preferably adding the mic, but if I can't, that's ok, too. All four of those sound pretty good to me alone (For an improvement while still staying single-source, the ToneDexter seems to work well with them, too)
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  #66  
Old 08-07-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Everyone's taste, needs and experience is different when it comes to pickups, so my picks may not be relevant to anyone elses, but basically, I use the ones I listed, Dazzo, Trance, K&K, and Barbara by themselves when necessary, preferably adding the mic, but if I can't, that's ok, too. All four of those sound pretty good to me alone (For an improvement while still staying single-source, the ToneDexter seems to work well with them, too)

Thanks Doug. I assumed that was the case, but I was curious.
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  #67  
Old 08-07-2017, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bartus View Post
MartinGitDave, thank you for the awesome chart. Although I've not tried all these different pickups, I have been in search of good amplified acoustic tone since the Barcus Berry stick-on pickups back in the 70s. I've gone the Ovation and Takamine routes, and then started using the original Fishman Aura Blender with my Breedloves in 2005. I graduated to the Aura Spectrum DI, and I still use that with my Breedloves.



I also love the original Martin Aura preamp and the Aura F1+ on the Martins I own. The Aura technology really comes closest to giving me a real acoustic tone amplified. It's not totally easy finding the right images for live work, but the rewards are worth it.



I have an Anthem SL that was installed on a Bedell I bought a couple of years ago. I do like the sound; it's just not as "acoustic" as the Aura tones.



And finally, I got a ToneDexter. There are some of my guitars for which I haven't found the best Aura image; I will (when I get time) try and create live tones for those "holdouts."



This has been a compelling discussion, and I look forward to more!

Thank you John!
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  #68  
Old 08-07-2017, 07:25 PM
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Charmed Life Picks Charmed Life Picks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tico View Post
No bass for LR Baggs Lyric?
Nonsense!

Nearly all under-saddle piezo PUs boost the bass to unnaturally high levels.
Everyone has gotten used to that.
The natural frequency response of the unamplified acoustic guitar is long-forgotten or ignored.

The Lyric is relatively accurate so people miss that artificially-boosted bass they've become accustomed to.

It is common for people, who finally hear truly flat mics or speakers, to say "Dude, that sounds like crap. Uh, man, it doesn't kick me in the chest with thundering bass like my $39 gear does. What a rip off."
This is the nature of piezos, which everyone has known for generations. There are many fine eq's on the market for not a lot of $$$$ that can smooth that out. The Baggs systems are superb and highly regarded by almost everyone in the industry. They frequently appear on Martin, Gibson and other legendary guitars. They don't install crap.

I've played them all -- B-Band, Trance Amulet, Fishman, you name it -- and Baggs owes no apology to any of them. If you look at their list of artists, these are serious players who want an acoustic guitar to sound wooden and accurate.

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  #69  
Old 08-07-2017, 08:56 PM
troggg troggg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Everyone's taste, needs and experience is different when it comes to pickups, so my picks may not be relevant to anyone elses,
Hi Doug, would you say your tastes and recommendations apply solely to fingerpicking or do you feel they crossover to to players who strum semi-aggressively or aggressively?
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  #70  
Old 08-08-2017, 07:32 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
This is the nature of piezos, which everyone has known for generations. There are many fine eq's on the market for not a lot of $$$$ that can smooth that out. The Baggs systems are superb and highly regarded by almost everyone in the industry. They frequently appear on Martin, Gibson and other legendary guitars. They don't install crap.

I've played them all -- B-Band, Trance Amulet, Fishman, you name it -- and Baggs owes no apology to any of them. If you look at their list of artists, these are serious players who want an acoustic guitar to sound wooden and accurate.

scott memmer
On the subject of Baggs pickups in Martin guitars, I recently noticed (in a 2017 Summer NAMM video) that Martin is now offering the Baggs Anthem system as a factory installed option for some of their models. Is this a new development?

Aside from one Martin model equipped with the Mi-Si Acoustic Trio system, I was previously unaware of Martin installing anything other than Fishman pickup systems in their guitars.
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  #71  
Old 08-08-2017, 09:15 AM
GibbyPrague GibbyPrague is offline
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Fishman Matrix Infinity coupled with an Aura Spectrum DI.

Use it on all my gigging guitars with extremely pleasing results.
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  #72  
Old 08-08-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by GibbyPrague View Post
Fishman Matrix Infinity coupled with an Aura Spectrum DI.



Use it on all my gigging guitars with extremely pleasing results.

This is the external version of the internal Aura system that I am using to gig with. It works very well.

Gibby, do you think the Matrix degrades acoustic tone? It's a current debate among AGF friends.
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  #73  
Old 08-08-2017, 11:20 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
This is the external version of the internal Aura system that I am using to gig with. It works very well.

Gibby, do you think the Matrix degrades acoustic tone? It's a current debate among AGF friends.
I know you were asking Gibby but I used the Matrix for many years with the spectrum DI. I never noticed any tonal change with it. I did notice a change with the Anthem though. I am a firm believer that the harder the UST is, the less tonal degradation will occur.

I often think about getting the Matrix Infinity and going back to pairing it with the spectrum. I just found it so difficult to find an image that worked well. However, I also did not experiment a ton with the images available online.
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  #74  
Old 08-08-2017, 11:21 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
On the subject of Baggs pickups in Martin guitars, I recently noticed (in a 2017 Summer NAMM video) that Martin is now offering the Baggs Anthem system as a factory installed option for some of their models. Is this a new development?

Aside from one Martin model equipped with the Mi-Si Acoustic Trio system, I was previously unaware of Martin installing anything other than Fishman pickup systems in their guitars.
It is interesting that Martin is using both pickup manufacturers but it's always great for potential buyers.
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  #75  
Old 08-08-2017, 11:27 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I know you were asking Gibby but I used the Matrix for many years with the spectrum DI. I never noticed any tonal change with it. I did notice a change with the Anthem though. I am a firm believer that the harder the UST is, the less tonal degradation will occur.

I often think about getting the Matrix Infinity and going back to pairing it with the spectrum. I just found it so difficult to find an image that worked well. However, I also did not experiment a ton with the images available online.
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