Thinking about removing K&K

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Wooly

Suggestions??

Let a pro remove it. Installation is an easy amateur job but clean removal takes some practice. Martin removed and reinstalled two of my installations when the owners brought those instruments in for neck resets and other work. I checked out Martin's work and thought I could not tell they had been removed.

As for the next pickup, at $200, I'm not sure what to recommend. It seems all the choices are loved by many and despised by more than a few. Maybe this guitar should be your pure acoustic.

[Halcyon/Tinker]

I've become a big fan of the Schatten Design HFN passive, about $150CAD.

And since it uses 2side tape to hold it, you can experiment with placement which will affect its sound output.

I think it would be correct to think that your guitar was not 'designed' to have a k&k installed, and I would expect that few, if any, actually are. But they may work better in some guitars than others.

Good luck in your hunt for a solution!

[Vancebo]

I never had a K and K installed in a guitar that I thought sounded great without gobs of EQ. Every install was similar to what you described. I have not been one of the fortunate folks that loved it set flat on it's own.

I do recommend that you go to You Tube and look up Dazzo pickups and Teddy Randazzo videos. You will find some live videos of his pickup in action. He sets hid guitar set flat with no EQ. I have his pickups installed on all my guitars. To me, they sound good set flat but with small EQ adjustments I get mine to "pop" in any situation either solo or with a band.

Both the Trance and The Dazzo come from the same FRAP and Arnie Lazarus origins. I had both a Trance and Dazzo installed on my two GS minis for comparisons sake. I found them to be so similar in character that I could not choose that one is necessarily better than the other. In short, I kept the Dazzo because of it's simplicity and because all my other guitars are wired with a Dazzo. The Trance will be sold off when I get around to it.

[Marty C]

I too removed my K & K. I could not get it out without damage. But I didn't want it anyway. I have a Martin D-16GT. It was bass and mid heavy and no amount of eq could tame it. If I took the mids back enough to get the "honkiness" out, it sound way too thin. Big body mahogany is probably going to be bass and mid heavy anyway. I let the dealer decide what he thought was best when I bought this guitar new. I think maybe a small body guitar that might need more mid and bass could benefit.

I had a Baggs M1A that was in a old Epiphone. I took it out and tried it in my Martin. Definitely sounds better in the old Epiphone.

After much research and sound sample listening, I went with a Baggs Anthem SL. I can get the best signal skipping all the preamp stuff I bought trying to tame the K & k and going straight to the mixer. Still need to scoop the mids however. Sound great through my Loudbox mini, which I rarely use. Not 100% happy, but much better than my K & K.

The K & K was a pain to remove. Lots of patience and sanding. I too went to a local home center and bought a special solvent for removing super glue. If you do this, be really careful and cover your guitar well. If it removes super glue, it will remove a guitar's finish also. A good light source and mirror is need to insure you get all the glue out. I have big forearms and it was a pain. I decided to never again put something in I could not remove easily.

I think some guitars just don't sound their best with a pick up installed. I think mine is one of these. It's okay, but I plug in lots of guitars at Guitar Centers when I travel and are quite happy with the sound. I try to use a similar source, which they always have a Loudbox mini in the acoustic guitar room.

I went to a singer songwriter event this Saturday. The musicians were great, but most of their guitars sounded bad. I also think the guy running the sound didn't have an ear for it either. The best I heard was a Gibson with a M80. It seemed to be a good match for his guitar. Couldn't tell which guitar from a distance, since I am not too familiar with Gibsons, but looked like a J45. Sounded natural and he played well. I did not play, just listen.

Good luck in your selection. I wish I had better advice for you. I would hate to make a recommendation and then you not be happy. I do think sound is how you hear it and what sounds good to you may not to others. However I also think the guitar has a lot to do with it. I have talked to others who have my same guitar and love the K & K.

[Wooly]

Thanks all for the info. I have some research to do.

[Wooly]

I'm leaning towards the Schatten design pickup.

I don't care about damaging the K&K but my biggest concern would be getting all the old glue off the bridge plate once the K&K is removed.

[Br1ck]

I think one reason you are unhappy with K &Ks is that it is a one size fits all pickup. That is also why they are successful.

I've got Dazzos in five guitars. No two have the same pickup. If you call Teddy, he can make a pretty educated guess which pickup will work for you.

I'm blessed to have him put all my Dazzos in as I live nearby. I run all of them through a RedEye, and you know how much EQ that has (next to none).

[Wooly]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

I think one reason you are unhappy with K &Ks is that it is a one size fits all pickup. That is also why they are successful.

I've got Dazzos in five guitars. No two have the same pickup. If you call Teddy, he can make a pretty educated guess which pickup will work for you.

I'm blessed to have him put all my Dazzos in as I live nearby. I run all of them through a RedEye, and you know how much EQ that has (next to none).

Thanks. I will consider that also.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Wooly

I have a K&K mini installed in my Larrivee OM-03 and it just doesn't sound right. I run it through a Fishman Loudbox Mini. I tried using a K&K XLR preamp, a Beringer ADI 21 and with no preamp at all. So far the Beringer sounds the best but it's still not right to me. Too much mids and bass. Sounds wompy with a lot of overtones. I have checked installation and eveything looks good.

I have a Seagull SWS mini jumbo with a K&K mini in it and it sounds great. I have a Alvarez AP70 with a JJB pickup in it and it sounds great. I even have a cheap Yamaha all laminate with a JJB in and it sounds pleasing. I don't think this particular guitar is meant to have this design of pickup in it.

So, I am seriously thinking about removing this K&K and replacing it with something else. I really don't want a sound hole pickup but I don't want to break the bank either. Maybe around $200.00 give or take. I would like to keep it passive also if possible.

Suggestions??

Bondini remover can help if you do it yourself.
http://www.truevalue.com/product/5-G...-Gel/19591.uts

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

I think one reason you are unhappy with K &Ks is that it is a one size fits all pickup. That is also why they are successful.

I've got Dazzos in five guitars. No two have the same pickup. If you call Teddy, he can make a pretty educated guess which pickup will work for you.

I'm blessed to have him put all my Dazzos in as I live nearby. I run all of them through a RedEye, and you know how much EQ that has (next to none).

Well put Br1ck. I also have 5 Dazzofied guitars all installed by Teddy. He comes up my way twice a year. I have 60's in my Goodall, 70's in two guitars, 80's in one and 90's in my uke. All need very little EQ. I have also installed Dazzos in other guitars, ukes, mandolins and even a Banjo all belonging to friends of mine and they are still my friends.

[alohachris]

Aloha Wooly,

Here's another approach & other things to consider.

Everyone seems to want you to switch out your pickup, Wooly. Why?

The K&K SBT is the best manufactured pickup I have ever used in combination with any type of second source - & I've tried 'em all, except for the Dazzo. They are great "glue" pick ups when combined with mic's & magnetic pickups. So I'd say don't give up on the K&K in your Larrivee yet, Wooly.

Additionally, if you're as squeamish as many guitar players seem to be here about taking out & properly installing pickups, then have a reputable repairman take the K&K out & reinstall it properly. That may be a small & inexpensive problem to fix. And then, if you're the type of player who seeks out as natural a sound as you can in your live rig/sound, add a mic to the mix & a dual source preamp or mixer to separately EQ the two sources/channels, blend, pan & sum. Won't get better live, natural acoustic sound than that in most venues.

I have been using self-made or manufactured (when they finally came out) SBT pickups in combo with mic's & other pickups for over 47 years of the 53 years I gigged nightly. Before that, all acoustic giggers had was mic's, which didn't work very well in a lot of situations.

Believe me when I say that No Pickup Alone is complete or can give a gigger what they need in all spaces, even the K&K. Dual-Source Systems with the right controls can get you close. Dual Sources are the way to go if you are a solo gigger playing in a variety of venues night to night. They give you more consistency & quality of NATURAL acoustic sound & much more room control, IME. And a K&K P/U/ internal condenser mic combo is as natural sounding & workable as you can get, IMO, Wooly.

I've installed & taken out hundreds of K&K's for myself & other players. It's not a big deal to do & you don't have to break the K&K on it's way out. I'm not going into how I do it here (basically: sharpened razor blade, several solvent(s), scraper, FRESH Medium Titebond cyanocrylate, patience in installing after lining it up perfectly). But the attitude I take is that it's only a pickup & not open heart surgery - with no trepidation or fear. So, find a competent & confident repairmen to do it for you Wooly. Take it out. Put it back in - properly. And don't freak out about using glue inside your guitar or on SBT's. The better the joint, the better the sound.

I've put K&K's in your Larrivee OM-03 model many times - & they DO NOT sound boomy or bass heavy. In fact, that is a very balanced guitar shape, not particularly as bass-heavy as dreadnoughts, which the K&K can make sound great with out a lot of EQ'ing. So don't give up on your K&K in that OM guitar yet - until you've explored PROPER reinstallation options.

I mean, if you think K&K's are an installation nightmare, wait till you get into Dazzo's or Trance's or even UST's like the old LB6. Those impact your unplugged sound.

Give the K&K another reinstallation shot on your guitar & add a mic to the mix if you're into Natural Acoustic Sound, Wooly. What you really want is to be prepared for every gigging situation, right?

Good Luck!

alohachris

PS: Being prepared: When I gigged every night, at the end, I used a K&K Mini P/U /AKG 416 internal condenser mic combo in my gigging guitars, run through a Pendulum SPS-1 dual-source preamp, a TC M2000 FX unit & out through some custom Koa Daedalus W-803 speakers. This signal chain worked exceptionally well in virtually all situations for me: playing, singing & others sitting in (sometimes I'd add a small Soundcraft mixer to accommodate others needs for channels).

If it was a perfect, mellow room, I added an external mic to that basic combo or used that mic alone (acoustic heaven). If it got VERY loud, I slapped in a Duncan SA-6 Magmic sound hole pickup on the spot, turned off the mic, & either combined it with the K&K, or used it alone in the loudest situations (loud jams, tight stages w/ drums, bass & electric instruments). No feedback, acoustic sound. Lotsa control. The K&K worked beautifully in every situation. Being prepared for every gig - with MORE than a single pickup, Wooly! - alohachris -

[Wooly]

Alohachris. Thanks for the reply.

I don't know if removing and reinstalling this pickup would help. I installed it myself and followed instructions to the tee according to K&K. I feel that the transducer are placed properly when I checked them last so I'm not sure what's going on. Maybe I'll have another look

Sent you a PM

[martingitdave]

I agree with Alohachris. He makes some excellent points anoint pickups in general and the K&K specifically. The K&K has the least impact on acoustic tone of the pickups I've used and it gets you about 80% of the way "there" in terms of plugged in tone. Add a second source or a imaging pedal and you can get a very good workable tone.

[Wooly]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I agree with Alohachris. He makes some excellent points anoint pickups in general and the K&K specifically. The K&K has the least impact on acoustic tone of the pickups I've used and it gets you about 80% of the way "there" in terms of plugged in tone. Add a second source or a imaging pedal and you can get a very good workable tone.

I'm using a Beringer ADI21 acoustic modeler right now. It helps.

[warddix]

I'll join the previously hidden chorus of k&k removers- my Martin OM 21 special sounded midrangy then woofy, it was just not _me_. I happen to love Seymour Duncan MagMic soundhole pickups in many guitars, that Martin and a couple yamahas. Easy to fiddle with and tune to a room or song, and I always get positive comments about how my guitar sounds to listeners. I worried about the loss of acoustic tone, but either couldn't discern it or gave up that worry. Best of luck, find what works for you-