Mastered Volume levels - Please listen

[pipe dreamer]

Hello All

Im not too sure if I'm in the right section, as I know it could be deemed one for show and tell. However, I'm looking for some opinions, specifically on the overall volume of this track. I've done all the recording and mastering myself, and while I know it could be deemed a bit on the quiet side (compared to commercial releases) this is somewhat deliberate to keep the dynamics in tact. So what do you think? too quiet? any other feedback on the recording/production would also be welcome, I can't afford to have this mastered by a pro at this point with a young family to feed!!

For anyone interested, it's a cover of a Bobby Bland tune that I love..

Cheers

[runamuck]

I think it sounds great.

Unless you plan to release this for airplay, why worry about how loud it is?
The listener will simply turn up the volume on whatever they're listening on.

[Rudy4]

For my own consumption vocal is much higher than the guitar track. If you're looking to pump up the overall track level then look for vocal peaks (like 2:20) that limit the overall track volume when you master / normalize levels.

[muscmp]

the guitars and vocals are recorded basically, spot on. perhaps the vocal a little more prominent. being a bobby freak, i found the tempo to be dragging but you may have wanted it that way.

great job!

play music!

[rick-slo]

Very nice voice.

Regarding the volume it is loud enough and in fact the recording is clipping and distorting in a few places.

If the clipping arose from post recording volume boosting then cut the boost a little. If the clipping was at recording time then try processing the recorded tract with an added peak volume limiter, or if you want the overall sound to be higher you could use some compression.

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I think it sounds great.

Unless you plan to release this for airplay, why worry about how loud it is?
The listener will simply turn up the volume on whatever they're listening on.

Thanks for the feedback! I agree with you completely, just that I'm my own worst critic and ever since I began recording always found it disheartening after bouncing to discover commercial tracks were louder. I'm really happy you enjoyed this one.

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

For my own consumption vocal is much higher than the guitar track. If you're looking to pump up the overall track level then look for vocal peaks (like 2:20) that limit the overall track volume when you master / normalize levels.

Thanks Rudy. I definitely see where you're coming from. Due to recording both tracks live with mics almost in an xy position there is vocal and guitar on both tracks. So I was somewhat limited when raising the guitar volume, as vocal would increase too. I ended up finding a balance I was happy with, really appreciate the feedback.

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by muscmp

the guitars and vocals are recorded basically, spot on. perhaps the vocal a little more prominent. being a bobby freak, i found the tempo to be dragging but you may have wanted it that way.

great job!

play music!

Thank you! yes, I did want the tempo slower great to know what fans make of a cover though! Perhaps I'll do a quicker tempo in future to experiment

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Very nice voice.

Regarding the volume it is loud enough and in fact the recording is clipping and distorting in a few places.

If the clipping arose from post recording volume boosting then cut the boost a little. If the clipping was at recording time then try processing the recorded tract with an added peak volume limiter, or if you want the overall sound to be higher you could use some compression.

Thank you rick, I appreciate your feedback! Just out of interest, did you hear some distortion throughout the track? Reason I ask is because there is some noise on the track from my foot tapping occasionally that was rocking my slightly loose mic holder. I decided to not be too bothered about it, but did think it could sound a bit like distortion. Just wondering if this noise is what you heard or if I've missed something. Certainly shows you were listening intently! thanks again.

[rick-slo]

The distortion I heard is in the clipping.

Below is an example from your recording where there were overs (clipping):

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

The distortion I heard is in the clipping.

Below is an example from your recording where there were overs (clipping):

Thanks derek, I can only assume this was in recording stage as there were no clips while mixing (that I was aware of) I did have some gentle compression and gentle limiting, I assume if they had worked correctly it would not show as clipping on your graph? Sorry if it's a dumb question, keen to learn to record and mix so there is no clipping at all. Also, could you tell me how you get a reading like this that shows clipping in this way. On logic my audio doesn't show it

Thanks

[rick-slo]

I just did a quick analysis in Audacity where you can mark the clipping. Basically where you see the waveform flatten out at the peaks. However the clip distortion is quite minor and you could leave it as is. Certainly don't amplify it more in an effort to make it louder.

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I just did a quick analysis in Audacity where you can mark the clipping. Basically where you see the waveform flatten out at the peaks. However the clip distortion is quite minor and you could leave it as is. Certainly don't amplify it more in an effort to make it louder.

Ok cool, thanks Derek. I'm hoping that is where the gentle limiter is doing its job. But I'll certainly go back and do a little more analysis later today.

Think I'll definitely just leave it as it is

Cheers

[KevWind]

First off it's a nice performance .
Just listening on my laptop, As Rick noted it sounds a bit clipped on some of the vocal spots..... that said:

In only a very general sense do I agree that the relationship of vocal to guitar could is a bit heavy on the vocal. And you could address this by simply lowering the vocal track volume. BUT First I would ( if your DAW has automation) ride the vocal to lower it in the particular spots where it is masking the guitar the most. Then if you have not already done it, I would use just a touch subtractive EQ to carve out a difference between the guitar and vocal.

You have captured a really good close feel with the vocal
Your voice (which BTW sounds great and can be great if somewhat more problematic for this type of close intimate style song and recording ) I am guessing like mine your voice has some natural low mid growl in it and like me, you sing with a fair amount power at times . Which can sometimes be heard as a clipping type sound but really isn't clipping, BUT unfortunately it can cand also contribute at times, to overloading the mic a bit and actually clipping the signal , and it is sometimes hard to determine which it is . Either way, it is in the recording and really cannot be fixed after the fact with volume or compression.

In this recording I made a while back the same thing is going on. In an effort to have great presence air and closeness in my vocal #1 I think I recorded it just bit to hot and my natural growl is not helping either. As Rick noted my adding a look-ahead peak limiter after the fact did raise the overall volume but it emphasized the overload sound and the sibilance as well . So now we know why the pro recording engineers get the big bucks



You have run into one of the single biggest problems with recording vocals/voices like ours not overloading the mic signal while keeping that close feeling .

So for future reference some things is to consider trying one or more of :
#1 back the mic pre down a couple more db.
#2 physically back off the mic and inch. or practice doing so when you are going to up the power...or practice dipping your head/ mouth angle ever so slightly ( works for reducing plosives also)
# 3 use a slight bit of compression while tracking the vocal with a low ratio, fast attack, and a slow release

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by KevWind

First off it's a nice performance .
Just listening on my laptop, As Rick noted it sounds a bit clipped on some of the vocal spots..... that said:

In only a very general sense do I agree that the relationship of vocal to guitar could is a bit heavy on the vocal. And you could address this by simply lowering the vocal track volume. BUT First I would ( if your DAW has automation) ride the vocal to lower it in the particular spots where it is masking the guitar the most. Then if you have not already done it, I would use just a touch subtractive EQ to carve out a difference between the guitar and vocal.

You have captured a really good close feel with the vocal
Your voice (which BTW sounds great and can be great if somewhat more problematic for this type of close intimate style song and recording ) I am guessing like mine your voice has some natural low mid growl in it and like me, you sing with a fair amount power at times . Which can sometimes be heard as a clipping type sound but really isn't clipping, BUT unfortunately it can cand also contribute at times, to overloading the mic a bit and actually clipping the signal , and it is sometimes hard to determine which it is . Either way, it is in the recording and really cannot be fixed after the fact with volume or compression.

In this recording I made a while back the same thing is going on. In an effort to have great presence air and closeness in my vocal #1 I think I recorded it just bit to hot and my natural growl is not helping either. As Rick noted my adding a look-ahead peak limiter after the fact did raise the overall volume but it emphasized the overload sound and the sibilance as well . So now we know why the pro recording engineers get the big bucks



You have run into one of the single biggest problems with recording vocals/voices like ours not overloading the mic signal while keeping that close feeling .

So for future reference some things is to consider trying one or more of :
#1 back the mic pre down a couple more db.
#2 physically back off the mic and inch. or practice doing so when you are going to up the power...or practice dipping your head/ mouth angle ever so slightly ( works for reducing plosives also)
# 3 use a slight bit of compression while tracking the vocal with a low ratio, fast attack, and a slow release

Hi Kev

Thank you for the advice. I always wanted a crystal clear angelic voice, like paul simon or John Martyn, but have come to accept what I have and work with it! I totally know what you mean regarding the challenges. I do like the sound when it is recorded fairly hot, but you're then walking a tightrope somewhat!

I went back over my two tracks and found one of the mics was causing the problem as I could hear the clip while on solo. I had both mics with the same gain settings on my preamp, so I will in future drop this by db as you suggest. I had originally felt that because I had no clips in the DAW during mixing that all was ok, but after the advice here, and further listening I see that it is during recording rathe than mixing/mastering.

Thanks Again for the advice. It really is amazing that the AGF is here for us all to share knowledge like this, very helpful!