Home studeo monitors? Better than computer speakers, not quite stage speakers?

FlyFishn · #1 04-01-2017, 10:34 PM

I am looking around at monitors/speakers and I'm not real sure I have a good understanding. I do want active speakers, built-in amp not a separate amp, so I have that part nailed down.

What I want the speakers for is home use mostly - recording play-back, general use to play music over, and the capability of being a PA on occasion.

I've heard Amphion mentioned as being very accurate studio monitors. That is fantastic, but I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on them.

The Mackie SRM450's are overkill - those would cover the PA and general use categories, with plenty of head room I'd think, but for home use they're way overkill.

I have used Mackie SR1530's in years past - fantastic speakers for small bands. If I could find a small scale set of active speakers I think that would suit. A wider frequency response would be ideal. It looks like a 10" woofer or bigger is on order or I'll loose too much bass response.

This is for hobby use. I've heard that monitors may be the most important part of a studio set up because that is how you will perceive the quality of everything else in the sound making process since that is what you are hearing it all through (of course, you could use headphones too). Having the high quality right now isn't attainable. I'd rather keep the cost down and maintain function. How close can I get to covering my bases?

Bob Womack · #2 04-02-2017, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

This is for hobby use. I've heard that monitors may be the most important part of a studio set up because that is how you will perceive the quality of everything else in the sound making process since that is what you are hearing it all through (of course, you could use headphones too).Having the high quality right now isn't attainable. I'd rather keep the cost down and maintain function. How close can I get to covering my bases?

You are correct in the assessment that monitor speakers are VERY important in recording. As we say in the recording business, the transducers (speakers and microphones) are the most crucial, and often most expensive part of the job. As for using a speaker for dual duty? Well, let's see. The design goals of recording monitors and PA speakers are at odds. A PA speaker is designed to give a reasonably good sound, often with rolled-off high and low end because over longer distances the bass requires a LOT of power to be projected and the treble is simply absorbed in the volume of air between speaker and distant listener. They are also designed to be self-protecting. To do that the designer makes them less and less efficient as they approach their loudness limits so that it is very hard to overdrive them to the point of damage. It is essentially mechanical/electric compression. All of this adds up to a less than accurate and very durable speaker.

A recording monitor is designed to sound good but more importantly to make you mix your product well. It is supposed to be accurate and to faithfully go on being accurate right up to the point where you push it so hard it destroys itself. On the design scale it lives on the accuracy verses self-protection end of the scale. That makes it a bad choice for PA work where it could easily be damaged.

And headphones... What you hear in a pair of headphones is not like what you hear in speakers. Unless you throw down some serious coin for a pair of headphones that present a simulated speaker experience, a pair of headphones provides you with an absolutely pure left channel to left ear and right channel to right ear listening experience. In your living room, the output of your two speakers blend, ie. a certain amount of both left and right speaker signal goes to the left ear and vice versa. As a result, you will mix differently in headphones from how you will mix listening to monitor speakers.

So, I'd use monitors for monitors and PA speakers for PA work. Not cheap news, but being honest.

Bob

KevWind · #3 04-02-2017, 08:42 AM

Bob has nailed it..... while there are numerous inexpensive but very usable options for studio monitors, as well as a number of inexpensive PA speakers, the notion of a speaker to do both is somewhat conflicted.
A perhaps exaggerated analogy ,but given your username would be something like , I am looking for one fly rod and reel to use for both Bluegill and Jack Crevalle .

So it sounds to me like you're going to be Bluegill fishing 80% or more of the time. So I would think about a nice 3 or 4 wt. set of studio monitors, and If an when you need a PA rent or borrow a 11 or 12 wt.

You dont really want the gear used for this in the studio, this is much more akin to the mosh pit at a punk or thrash metal concert

rick-slo · #4 04-02-2017, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

What I want the speakers for is home use mostly - recording play-back, general use to play music over, and the capability of being a PA on occasion.

Highly accurate, flat response, studio monitors will not be the most pleasant for casual listening or PA use. You may want to balance speaker characteristics
out if you want them for multiple purposes. Also in the studio what are you going to record and possibly mix (synths) into your recordings? Strong low frequency
speaker response is not needed for guitar and voice for example, and may even complicate things depending on room acoustics, etc.

FlyFishn · #5 04-02-2017, 10:14 AM

Thanks for the input. Fair analysis of the fly rods.. Point understood. (Though, you can bluegill fish with a 12wt - then throw the bluegill back in as bait. Hows that for dual purpose?)

As far as what I am recording/mixing - just guitar right now, mainly acoustic but I want to see what I can come up with on my electric also. In the future if I have the opportunity I think it would be fun doing some recordings with others - drums, other instruments.

As far as bass response - I don't want to loose too much tone on my low E string. I am not doing any hip hop mixing, and not looking to rumble the room, but I just want a full pallet of frequency spectrum.

So here is, perhaps, an odd question. If "accurate" monitors are not good for general listening then why would one want to mix on them, then take that recording to lesser accurate general purpose speakers? By asking that I realize I am showing my ignorance on the subject, but I am here to learn and am asking.

rick-slo · #6 04-02-2017, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

Thanks for the input. Fair analysis of the fly rods.. Point understood. (Though, you can bluegill fish with a 12wt - then throw the bluegill back in as bait. Hows that for dual purpose?)

As far as what I am recording/mixing - just guitar right now, mainly acoustic but I want to see what I can come up with on my electric also. In the future if I have the opportunity I think it would be fun doing some recordings with others - drums, other instruments.

As far as bass response - I don't want to loose too much tone on my low E string. I am not doing any hip hop mixing, and not looking to rumble the room, but I just want a full pallet of frequency spectrum.

So here is, perhaps, an odd question. If "accurate" monitors are not good for general listening then why would one want to mix on them, then take that recording to lesser accurate general purpose speakers? By asking that I realize I am showing my ignorance on the subject, but I am here to learn and am asking.

There is not much acoustic guitar output at low frequencies. What is there is usually non musical rumbling you probably are better off using a high pass filter to remove. For example below is a frequency spectrum of a pluck of a single string (other strings muted):

'
'
Flat frequency response monitors are good for finding problems but maybe clinical sounding for casual listening. Plus most will be designed for near field listening (narrow dispersion, etc.) - partially to help reduce the effects of room acoustics. I bought some years ago M-Audio BX8 monitors, set up for near field listening but found it pretty unsatisfactory. I'm personally happier using accurate headphones.

KevWind · #7 04-02-2017, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyFishn

Thanks for the input. Fair analysis of the fly rods.. Point understood. (Though, you can bluegill fish with a 12wt - then throw the bluegill back in as bait. Hows that for dual purpose?)

ha I guess that's true but I am only good for about 10 to 15 casts with out a good long rest with my 11 wt. be a short day of Bluegill for me

Quote:

As far as what I am recording/mixing - just guitar right now, mainly acoustic but I want to see what I can come up with on my electric also. In the future if I have the opportunity I think it would be fun doing some recordings with others - drums, other instruments.

As far as bass response - I don't want to loose too much tone on my low E string. I am not doing any hip hop mixing, and not looking to rumble the room, but I just want a full pallet of frequency spectrum.

So here is, perhaps, an odd question. If "accurate" monitors are not good for general listening then why would one want to mix on them, then take that recording to lesser accurate general purpose speakers? By asking that I realize I am showing my ignorance on the subject, but I am here to learn and am asking.

As far as mixing and monitoring the low E on a standard tuned guitar is approx. 82 hz and most small nearfields will go down to somewhere between 60 and 40 hz so you would actually be covered there.

Personally I do not really subscribe to the notion that accurate and balanced studio monitors are not good for general listening per se as a general truism, There are too many other variables at play.... But one caveat there, is that the studio monitor actually be accurate and balanced, which many claim to be, but may be less so by varying degrees . And that the general listener actually have a trained ear. Not to mention also that "what" you are listening to, is also well balanced and mixed. Now it is true that the more accurate the speakers the more any flaws are revealed right along with good sound.

For example The Amphions I use are IMO fine for just general listening ( if perhaps somewhat more revealing than say my SVS surround system)

I think the confusion comes from fact that so many consumer speakers while producing a lot of sound and can flood the room etc. (which to many consumers was and still is impressive .... think Bose ) they were/are arguably not necessarily all that well balanced or accurate. But the consumer simply did/does not know any better because they have not really focused on, or learned to listen critically.

MikeBmusic · #8 04-03-2017, 07:37 AM

You haven't mentioned your budget or the size of the room, both important considerations. No matter how much (or little) you spend on studio monitors, the sound will be affected by the room, and unless you already have a professionally-designed mixing room, you're going to need acoustic treatment - bass traps in corners, traps behind monitors that have rear bass ports, side wall absorption panels at first reflection points, etc.

paulp1960 · #9 04-03-2017, 11:30 AM

I also disagree with the notion that studio monitors are not good for listening to music for pleasure. I mean who doesn't like detail and accurate frequency response?

You can get quite good small studio monitors with 5 or 6.5 inch woofers and they will play quite low but not really loud like PA speakers. Deep and loud bass is expensive to implement in engineering terms.

If you can afford them Adam small monitors like the A7X are very nice.

But never try to use them as PA.

FlyFishn · #10 04-03-2017, 11:24 PM

Thanks for all the info so far. I know this isn't a direct answer to the budget question, but I don't have a real good answer. The "better" options are all astronomically (my perspective) expensive. I am not quite sure where I set the price point to be honest. I am trying to establish some options that will "serve the purpose" and see what road(s) that leads me to.

As for room size - this won't be a permanent install. The room right now is 12'x20', roughly. I don't want to limit myself to that, though.

KarenB · #11 04-04-2017, 06:18 AM

If you can, get to a good music store that carries studio monitors and listen. Try to go early in the day if possible before the store gets noisy.

Many monitors are self powered, some you need an amp to power them.

Bring a recording that you know very well, that is similar to the type of music you play. Find out in advance if you can do this at their store. It's true that studio speakers will be "flatter" than PA or home listening speakers, however, they should still be reasonably pleasing to your ear. You're going to be listening to those speakers for many many hours.

And listen at variable volumes. When you're at home, you're not going to want to crank them up all the time..bad for your hearing.

MikeBmusic · #12 04-04-2017, 06:45 AM

12x20 is a good size room, and 5" or 6" speakers won't really get loud enough in a room that size. Look at 8".
The JBL LSR series are a good bargain, the rear-firing bass ports being the only drawback to them. IF you can have them 5-6 feet away from a front wall, or can put trapping behind them, they are a good option to look at (but there are many others if you have the budget).

maxtheaxe · #13 04-11-2017, 04:55 PM

There are many options for what it seems you're looking for. I've been using some little 3" Mackies for the sound on my office computer, but they have larger ones that would work better for what you're doing...to wit...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/mackie-cr5bt-5-in.-bluetooth-multimedia-monitors--pair?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=CjwKEAjw_bHHBR D4qbKukMiVgU0SJADr08ZZK7meZaBoHT52TrqmisqaiM_8fE_e AfG-MHue5j3dGBoCfhrw_wcB&kwid=productads-adid^156403583515-device^c-plaid^140859210981-sku^J28931000000000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA

They aren't terribly expensive and are reasonably accurate. There are similar powered monitor from companies like Sampson, Kirk, JBL, all at various price points.

I also like (maybe even prefer) the idea of using a single space power amp like Carvin's DCM series monitor amp...
https://carvinaudio.com/collections/...oducts/dcm200l

Carvin has some very nice little near-field monitor speakers that would be perfect with that amp...

https://carvinaudio.com/collections/...-monitor-black

It would be nice to go out and spend several thousands on Genelec or Tannoy monitors, but there are less expensive, high quality options without breaking the bank.