Bose L1 vs Conventional PA for Acoustic Solo/Duos

[stratmansblues]

I am a singing guitarist that is struggling with live sound. I have used the Bose L1 systems (model 2, compact) in the past, but in a few venues I had a hard time hearing myself over a loud crowd. I play mostly in restaurants and bars.

I am currently using a pair of QSC K10 powered speakers and an Allen & Heath Zed10fx. I haven't really been in love with this setup since I got it. I usually bring one speaker out to gigs and it set up offset behind me on a stand. I've been considering putting the speaker in front of me and setting up a monitor to improve my monitoring and FOH volume. I feel like I am already bringing too much gear to shows where I have to set up in a corner.

I have been reading about the various line array type systems on the market lately and keep coming back to the Bose. Also I live in between Knoxville and Nashville and it seems like every acoustic group is using a Bose setup. Looking for advice to help me decide if I should expand my current setup or sell it and buy another Bose.

[Paultergeist]

Originally Posted by stratmansblues

I am a singing guitarist that is struggling with live sound.

You are not alone. It is an on-going process for many of us.

Originally Posted by stratmansblues

I have used the Bose L1 systems (model 2, compact) in the past, but in a few venues I had a hard time hearing myself over a loud crowd.

This is somewhat surprising to me, since the typical set-up of a Bose system is to place it behind the musician (usually back a few feet), so that you -- as the musician -- are directly in the path of the projected sound. How are you physically positioning yourself, with respect to the L1?

Originally Posted by stratmansblues

I am currently using a pair of QSC K10 powered speakers and an Allen & Heath Zed10fx. I haven't really been in love with this setup since I got it. I usually bring one speaker out to gigs and it set up offset behind me on a stand.

Those are outstanding PA speakers, but I don't think you are really using them as designed. I have "been there, done that." Trying to get adequate volume coverage for the audience while simultaneously getting your own hearing zone into the sound path of that same PA speaker often results in unsatisfying results.

Originally Posted by stratmansblues

I've been considering putting the speaker in front of me and setting up a monitor to improve my monitoring and FOH volume.

This is the conventional set-up for the majority of professional sound installations. Having a small monitor with individual volume control will almost certainly allow you to ensure that you can always hear yourself adequately.

Originally Posted by stratmansblues

I have been reading about the various line array type systems on the market lately and keep coming back to the Bose. Also I live in between Knoxville and Nashville and it seems like every acoustic group is using a Bose setup.

It IS indeed a useful pint of reference to see what other folks are using, and how that equipment works for them. There are many -- but certainly not all -- musicians who have had good results from the mini line-array systems such as the Bose, Fishman, JBL, etc. Importantly, not all systems work equally well in all venues.

Originally Posted by stratmansblues

Looking for advice to help me decide if I should expand my current setup or sell it and buy another Bose.

Whoa. Wait a sec....you are thinking about buying something that you have already established was not working that well for you? Or do you already own an L1, and you are considering getting another one? (not clear from your information). First of all, most of those mini line-arrays are intended to be used a single, stand-alone units. You should not need two in most cases if the unit is sized right for the venue. Secondly, plenty of folks have moved away from the line-arrays and bought QSCs -- these people considering the QSCs as upgrades to their sound.

My advice: buy a professional sound guy dinner, and have him come to one of your gigs and help you set-up / dial-in your current equipment. Before you start buying more expensive stuff, make sure that you are getting your existing equipment to work optimally. If the only issue is you hearing yourself (i.e. the audience can hear you fine), then I think a small personal monitor might be the next thing to try.

[stratmansblues]

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my original post. I do not own any bose equipment at the moment.

[buzzardwhiskey]

When I play restaurants solo in a quiet setting then I can get away with minimal monitor volume and really enjoy interacting with the audience. But if the audience volume goes up and it becomes impossible to interact, I've really been thinking about IEM's. The advantage is also that I wouldn't need a heavy monitor.

[Groovekings]

Buzzard, I can vouch for the efficiency of iem's. My duo uses either one or two EV powered 12 speakers out front and Shure in ears with rack mounted Behringer head amp. Can't say enough good about them. No ear fatigue at night's end and studio quality monitoring. We use a Boss VE20 for harmonies and hearing yourself is a must. No boxes to lug and ear buds store in my guitar case. No downside


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[DavidE]

I've been using a Bose since 2006. Since my original stopped working (power supply failure), I have an L1M2. They've been great in most situations. HOWEVER, they are NOT good in a room with very loud crowd chatter. I don't know why, but if the place is packed and people are talking loudly, the Bose just doesn't cut through. It's only happened to me 3 times since 2006, but I usually take a more conventional system if I know it's going to be like that. Lately I've been using my JBL Eon One with a small powered speaker on a stand to blend in if needed. The JBL seems to cut through better but doesn't have the headroom of the Bose. The extra speaker takes care of that if needed.

[Groberts]

I also have K10's and ZED10 FX ....'and' Bose L1 Compact.

I never use the K10's anymore. Bose L1 Compact disperses the sound evenly and is never offensive or too loud to the people right in front of me. I play mostly resorts and high-end/upscale restaurant venues.

I place the Bose right behind my head, a few feet back. Its tall enough that it disperses out in the house (the drivers a the top of the tower are on angles). So get perfect monitoring and the house gets the same sound across the room. My audiences are often amazed at how it performs. I don't play quite loud enough for feedback to be an issue and I gig every weekend. I love the portability of the L1 Compact. It does not however have reverb. So I have an acoustic preamp on my pedal board and for Vocals, I use a TC harmony Singer that has reverb and switchable harmonies. Works great!

[pipedwho]

Originally Posted by DavidE

I've been using a Bose since 2006. Since my original stopped working (power supply failure), I have an L1M2. They've been great in most situations. HOWEVER, they are NOT good in a room with very loud crowd chatter. I don't know why, but if the place is packed and people are talking loudly, the Bose just doesn't cut through. It's only happened to me 3 times since 2006, but I usually take a more conventional system if I know it's going to be like that. Lately I've been using my JBL Eon One with a small powered speaker on a stand to blend in if needed. The JBL seems to cut through better but doesn't have the headroom of the Bose. The extra speaker takes care of that if needed.

This happens because for a line array the perceived level close to the speaker where you sit is only marginally 'louder' than the perceived level by the audience. When a room sounds 'loud' it almost always has reverb and reflection problems - ie. the kind of room where even without music you can barely hear the people talking next to you over all the reflected chatter.

So when you use the L1model2 (which is almost ideal in its wedge coverage pattern), you don't get sufficient headroom above the crowd to hear yourself at your location. Also, the more you turn up, the more crowd shouts and you're back where you started.

With a conventional speaker, the radiated sound falls away far more rapidly, so the front seats get blown away while the back of the room is much quieter. At your seated location right near the speaker its relatively much louder than further into the room. This gives you much more headroom over the 'chatter' and reflections to be able to hear yourself.

If you're hearing the JBL One louder than the Bose, then it probably is a far less ideal line array than the L1Model2. Being less ideal, the drop off with distance is much greater giving you coverage performance a little closer to a conventional speaker than an ideal line array.

IMO, if it's not a dance floor situation, when the noise/chatter is that loud, turn down a bit more, as no one can hear you properly anyway. Then use a local foldback speaker so you can hear yourself, or better yet IEMs which will also block out the excessive chatter.