Bad feedback on my AER compact 60

[GibbyPrague]

Im going to do some tests this week, but I think the central issue is not the amp but i think im running it too hot through the Play acoustic. It has its own gain setting and i will aim to pull back on that.

Thanks again for everyones input. If it still doesnt work ill get the feedback busters that folks suggested.

cheers,
Gibby

Originally Posted by jseth

Gibby;

I didn't realize you were sending so many different signals through that little amp! First thing I would try would be to take ALL the effects out of the loop (both the AER and other), see how it works and then dial in small bits of the FX until you get where you like it...

When you say it does the same thing at home, is that with ALL the same stuff running through it and at the same (approx.) volume levels?

If you are sending the vocal mic through that PLAY acoustic, I would guess that to be the problem somehow. Also, be sure that your "gain staging" is set correctly between the Play Acoustic gizmo input/output to the AER channel and output, as that could wreak havoc with the final result...

But I suspect it's that Play Acoustic unit, that somehow it's not "playing well" with the rest of the signal chain.

[Laughingboy68]

Originally Posted by jseth

Gibby;

I didn't realize you were sending so many different signals through that little amp! First thing I would try would be to take ALL the effects out of the loop (both the AER and other), see how it works and then dial in small bits of the FX until you get where you like it...

When you say it does the same thing at home, is that with ALL the same stuff running through it and at the same (approx.) volume levels?

If you are sending the vocal mic through that PLAY acoustic, I would guess that to be the problem somehow. Also, be sure that your "gain staging" is set correctly between the Play Acoustic gizmo input/output to the AER channel and output, as that could wreak havoc with the final result...

But I suspect it's that Play Acoustic unit, that somehow it's not "playing well" with the rest of the signal chain.

+1 re: gain staging.

My money says therein lies your problem. Make sure that each stage of your amplification gets a clear, strong, but unclipped signal from the stage before it. Otherwise, you are amplifying noise and inviting feedback.

[martingitdave]

The Play Acoustic has a few areas to attenuate the signal in the mixer. But, there is a positive gain setting on the first page of the setup screen. That db level should be setup based on your pickup's signal strength. For instance, turn up the guitar just below the red clipping light when strumming hard. Then, look at your amp settings and make sure the amp is not set too high. You want the gain on the TC PA preamp to moderately boost the signal, if needed. A few db is usually enough (I think my active pickups are set for 4 or 5 db). You want the signal to noise ratio to be high so that each stage is "gently" lifting the signal for the next stage. You don't want it too hot at the end, or at the front. I hope this makes sense.

[Laughingboy68]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

The Play Acoustic has a few areas to attenuate the signal in the mixer. But, there is a positive gain setting on the first page of the setup screen. That db level should be setup based on your pickup's signal strength. For instance, turn up the guitar just below the red clipping light when strumming hard. Then, look at your amp settings and make sure the amp is not set too high. You want the gain on the TC PA preamp to moderately boost the signal, if needed. A few db is usually enough (I think my active pickups are set for 4 or 5 db). You want the signal to noise ratio to be high so that each stage is "gently" lifting the signal for the next stage. You don't want it too hot at the end, or at the front. I hope this makes sense.

If I'm not mistaken, the problem in this case is in the vocal chain rather than the guitar signal.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Laughingboy68

If I'm not mistaken, the problem in this case is in the vocal chain rather than the guitar signal.

Ah! Fortunately, the same settings apply for the Mic.

[GibbyPrague]

Yep, I did quite a few tests yesterday. Took a much closer look at the play acoustic options and made a few adjustments.

There is a gain out overall which can be adjusted on the settings, which i reduced by 20% but increased output on the AER. It seemed to have improved the situation.

There is also mike gain level which can be adjusted on the side of it. Im doing a show tonite in a laid back friendly bar, so will try a few things and see how that responds.

Thank you for all the generous input guys.

[jseth]

Let us know what works for you... I would be really surprised if this were not some sort of "gain staging" issue.

Although I have been using (and performing with) a whole lot of amps and PA systems throughout the past 4 decades, I learned A LOT from reading up on Gain Staging... it was a it from someone on this Forum that led me there.

I heartily recommend that you google "Gain Staging" and see what it has to say; if it isn't the solution to your immediate problem, the information you gain from reading will serve you in many future live performance applications.

Again, please keep posting on how you deal with your problem... and any solutions you find!

[GibbyPrague]

Did a solo show on Friday night, in a small, friendly pub. Had the AER behind me, probably same overall volume level as the other venue, or at best maybe a little less. However I did have the overall output strength lower after adjusting the Play Acoustic.

No sign of feedback, not even a hint. Go figure.

Here's a pic taken just before i started so you can see the set up.

Originally Posted by jseth

Let us know what works for you... I would be really surprised if this were not some sort of "gain staging" issue.

Although I have been using (and performing with) a whole lot of amps and PA systems throughout the past 4 decades, I learned A LOT from reading up on Gain Staging... it was a it from someone on this Forum that led me there.

I heartily recommend that you google "Gain Staging" and see what it has to say; if it isn't the solution to your immediate problem, the information you gain from reading will serve you in many future live performance applications.

Again, please keep posting on how you deal with your problem... and any solutions you find!

[martingitdave]

That's good news!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Andy Howell]

Glad you have cracked this one. Getting the gain right across preamps, etc, and the final amp is important.

When you are playing in live settings remember rooms are all different as well. You will come across feedback issues from time to time but not that often. I always ensure that my preamp has a notch filter. I really use this to kill feedback but its nice to have it there.

Basically, never run any component in the chain very hot !!!

[lschwart]

Every room is different.

Louis

[GibbyPrague]

Originally Posted by lschwart

Every room is different.

Louis

Some girls are bigger than others.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by GibbyPrague

Some girls are bigger than others.

Yes, and some have more padding, some like to cuddle up close, some make you feel like you're all alone, some are constantly chattering with someone else, some like to drink, some like to listen.....

L.

[Bookstorecowboy]

Old thread but I had the same problem. I got instant feedback on an AT 2020. I switched to a Sennheiser 825 and zero feedback.
I know nothing about microphones and no doubt someone on here can tell me OF COURSE you got feedback on the AT 2020 because X. Is it a condenser mic/dynamic mic difference?

[shufflebeat]

There is much nonsense on this thread. Feedback is quite a simple process but once you get into feedback territory there are so many apparent variables that it seems complicated.

If volume and tone requirements are dictated by the situation and your gain staging is appropriate then mic choice and placement are the only tools at your disposal.

Mic sensitivity at a certain frequency will usually exacerbate problems, particularly if the amp has a resonance in the same frequency.

Mic polar patterns are normally:
* Omni - "listening" equally from all directions.
* Cardioid - listening from one particular direction with a "deaf zone" (null) at the rear.
* Super/hypercardioid - listening from one particular direction with a null towards the rear but off to the side.
* Fig.8 - listening equally from front and rear with a null to the sides (plus above/below).

Assuming the constants previously mentioned, pointing the null at the source of the sound is the single most effective thing you can do to deal with feedback *assuming* the sound is not being reflected all around the performance area by hard walls and low ceilings.

There is a lot of info on the 'net about polar patterns to inform a strategy.