How can I get more 'low-end' in my recordings?

[SimplyLuo]

Thing is, I can feel the bass when I play. I know it's there. But it just refuses to be recorded
audio sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8_PZz9Gbek

Am I limited by the microphone? It is a Sony ECM-MS957
Thanks

[sarNz]

it looks like the mic is pretty low, aimed at the high strings. maybe bring it up a bit and aim it more at the lower strings? also the closer the mic is, the bassier it will get because of proximity effect

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by SimplyLuo

Thing is, I can feel the bass when I play. I know it's there. But it just refuses to be recorded
audio sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8_PZz9Gbek

Am I limited by the microphone? It is a Sony ECM-MS957
Thanks

There are a lot of issues here. Foremost in my mind, the experience as the player cannot be duplicated in a recording. As the player we are closest to the instrument and more importantly we are inside the feedback loop so we hear the guitar respond to our input in a way no one else can.

A directional mic (your Sony has a pair of directional mics inside) captures bass accurately at only one position. Move it closer and the bass is exaggerated, move it farther away and the bass is diminished. You can experiment with mic position to find the bass response you desire.

The room where you record has a huge impact on the bass response, due to a phenomenon called standing waves. The wavelength of an 80hz note is over 14 feet!!!! So this wave bounces from the walls and folds back on itself. In some places it cancels itself, in others it reinforces, and the result is very uneven and unpredictable bass response in the room.

This is all a long way of saying, don't get your heart set on getting great bass response showing up in your YouTube vids. It's a pretty challenging task.

Fran

[donh]

Originally Posted by SimplyLuo

Thing is, I can feel the bass when I play.

Asked and answered.

As soon as you figure out how to record the feeling of a guitar held close to your body you are all set!!!

[SimplyLuo]

Thanks for the replies, I will experiment with the mic placement more
Fran... that is way beyond me. I have so much to learn!! I'm glad I asked here, and am grateful to be able to get advice from the professionals

donh could you elaborate a little? My english is a bit weird sometimes, sorry

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by SimplyLuo

Thanks for the replies, I will experiment with the mic placement more
Fran... that is way beyond me. I have so much to learn!! I'm glad I asked here, and am grateful to be able to get advice from the professionals
...

Not a professional at all, an old fogey amateur who's spent the past 10 years trying to figure this stuff out.

Your playing is impressive, are you interested in pursuing recording with similar intensity? It's _really_ a lot easier if you can find a friend who's interested in recording and you just focus on playing <grin>.

But if you want to pursue things, try http://www.realtraps.com/articles.htm to get some ideas about inexpensive acoustic treatment for your recording space.

Fran

[donh]

Originally Posted by SimplyLuo

Thanks for the replies, I will experiment with the mic placement more
Fran... that is way beyond me. I have so much to learn!! I'm glad I asked here, and am grateful to be able to get advice from the professionals

donh could you elaborate a little? My english is a bit weird sometimes, sorry

OK.

When you hold the guitar, you are feeling the bass through your body.

The mic has to be content with listening to whatever the guitar can send through the air. It just plain cannot record the feel.

Fran already mentioned the room issues.

There are many fine mics that can do a creditable job of recording the sound of the guitar, and in my experience they all cost three hundred or more dollars.

Hope this helps!

[dmoss74]

keep in mind that eqing can be a passive as well as active control. move the mic closer to the soundhole if you want more bass. and if doing any post eg, tame the high ends before adding bass. as far as i can tell, the sound is fairly balanced. maybe not what you were looking for, but it appears to be an accurate reproduction of the guitar.

[Losov]

The thing about YouTube, Soundclick, etc is you realize how many truly great guitarists there are out there, and probably always have been there. In the past I would go years without encountering someone at this level. Now another one is just a couple of clicks away.

[DupleMeter]

There are so many parts in the chain that it's really hard to know what to blame without being there and knowing what was going on in the room as the recording happened.

First - always check signal chain. The mic you listed says it has a frequency response of 50-18,000 Hz. The lowest note on a standard tuned guitar is just a hair over 82 Hz, so you're good there. What I couldn't find was a frequency plot of the mic. I mean, it may capture down to 50Hz, but maybe it's already 6dB down at 80Hz.

And what about the video camera, how good is the analog front end - not great I'd wager. There is the very real possibility that the camera has a low-end limit that is higher than microphone's.

Experiment with mic placement. As a general rule: closer = more bass. But the laws of physics also states that: closer = more treble (it's just how air absorbs sound energy).

Another thing to think about is the affect of the room on the recording. If the microphone is within the influence of a room mode it could be canceling out low end that is naturally present in the sound. In this case moving the mic will help by moving it away from the room mode.

Then there is the video capture conversion. This could be filtering the low end. Not sure what software you are using and what the process is.

And lastly, the upload to YouTube and the conversion that happens there. YouTube audio streams are MP3 and are high-pass filtered by default. This shouldn't affect the sound dramatically, but theory & practice are only the same in theory.

Try an extreme test. Stick the mic right in front of the soundhole. record 15 seconds of playing and upload to YouTube. If there is more bass...it's a just a mic position thing. If there isn't, the problem lies elsewhere.

[jeffrey]

That particular microphone you have isn't going to be very good for getting a "full bodied" sound out of an acoustic. It would be good mixed with another mic, a larger diaphram mic possibly through a tube preamp, but on it's own by nature it's a relatively thin sounding mic. It seems like that mic is more designed for use with a camcorder or something as it's got a 1/8" stereo jack, rather than audio recording.

Something like this (http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...Mic?sku=270624) which I also got on sale, for it's price it's a very good sounding large-diaphram condenser, additionally try picking up a tube preamp, ART makes some really affordable ones like this (http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...amp?sku=180643).

I own both of those and have had very good results with both.

Granted I do have a few higher end condensers, for the money that MXL one is very good.

So I'd say the majority of your issue is probably starting with your microphone, then whatever your preamp is (mixer, etc.) and lastly possibly your recording app.

Good luck!

[wthurman]

Also, remember it's not always addition. Sometimes you can increase bass response by lowering the high end a bit with some startling results.

[Herb Hunter]

The first thing I would try is to move the microphone closer to the guitar. I wouldn't buy any additional recording equipment until you have determined that you are getting the best possible sound from the equipment you already have.

It will be less frustrating and much quicker arriving at the optimum microphone placement if you have someone else play the guitar while you experiment with different microphone positions. One unusual microphone position you can try is to place the microphones next to your ears so that it more closely picks up what your ears are sensing. Since the microphone elements in your Sony can't be separated you would have to compromise by placing them both next to one ear or the other.

I just listened to the recording on my stereo system, with the controls set flat, and I didn't get the impression that the bass response was deficient Trying to enhance the bass may result in a boomy recording which I find highly undesirable. Still, all you can do is experiment and see if different microphone placements yield a recording whose sound you prefer. Boosting the bass by using the equalization controls is something you should only try as a very last resort.

[Steve Berger]

I always find post-recording EQ very helpful.

[SimplyLuo]

Wow, thanks for all the suggestions!
I'll have to fiddle around with it when I get home for spring break, since I don't have a camera here (unless I can get a Kodak Zi8 for my birthday).
The one I use is a Canon GL1, with the Sony mic plugged in directly to the camcorder.

Duplemeter, I capture the video from my camcorder with Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 and then export the audio to REAPER to boost the volume. For this recording, I did try to boost the low-end a bit because it sounded a bit too flat. I'm a complete novice at these kinds of things, so I probably screwed it up somewhere though. I just dragged the graph up on the left side haha
Then I export as h264 MP4, 44100khz, 192kbps and upload that to Youtube.

There is a setting on the camcorder called 'Mic Attenuator' that I use. I'm not sure exactly what it does, but if I don't use it the mic seems to overload frequently (spikes, rattling/static sound, etc). Would that play into it?

Thanks again!
Jon